History and Myth
Viewing comments for Chapter 42 "To Golgotha"Poems that tell stories of long ago
31 total reviews
Comment from His Grayness
This work is a magnificent gift of both poetic structure and dimensions of education for poets to embrace with gratitude. The content is compelling and powerful with deep emotional grip. I cannot offer any suggestion to make this work any better but only to pray this author continues these awesome gifts of his brilliant mind to readers everywhere. Blessings and Thanks! HIS GRAYNESS
reply by the author on 11-Feb-2016
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This work is a magnificent gift of both poetic structure and dimensions of education for poets to embrace with gratitude. The content is compelling and powerful with deep emotional grip. I cannot offer any suggestion to make this work any better but only to pray this author continues these awesome gifts of his brilliant mind to readers everywhere. Blessings and Thanks! HIS GRAYNESS
Comment Written 11-Feb-2016
reply by the author on 11-Feb-2016
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Thank you very much Vance. I appreciate your wonderful review. And those six stars.
Comment from tfawcus
You have exploited the power of this form marvellously here, The last line of each stanza has been used to full effect to inflict a summary blow to the mind of the reader. The two-part presentation acts like a dialogue in which first one side is presented and then the other. The overall effect is one of great, but restrained, intensity. Your poem suggests to me that Pantygynt may have created an enduring form. It is a shell that can create a pearl, as your poem so splendidly shows.
reply by the author on 11-Feb-2016
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You have exploited the power of this form marvellously here, The last line of each stanza has been used to full effect to inflict a summary blow to the mind of the reader. The two-part presentation acts like a dialogue in which first one side is presented and then the other. The overall effect is one of great, but restrained, intensity. Your poem suggests to me that Pantygynt may have created an enduring form. It is a shell that can create a pearl, as your poem so splendidly shows.
Comment Written 11-Feb-2016
reply by the author on 11-Feb-2016
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Thank you very much Tony. I tend to agree that this is a powerful way to tell a long story with two dimensions.
Comment from I am Cat
Hello Tom,
A lovely Pantygynt form here... I think you've done well with it. I know there were earlier struggles with some edits, but it looks like you got most of them... as far as punctuation, it looks like right here:
One cursed Him, "Save yourself and us"[.]
But one, "Remember me, Jesus"[.]
He turned and then responded thus,
"With Me your soul I'll draw"[.]
was where you stopped putting the punctuation inside the quotes.... from here down to the end of the poem (which a few exceptions)
above this, you changed them... I'm not sure if you got called away from the computer (that often happens to me)
at any rate, I'm sure you'll square it away.
Well done, this is a vast undertaking.
You've done a great job,
Cat
reply by the author on 11-Feb-2016
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Hello Tom,
A lovely Pantygynt form here... I think you've done well with it. I know there were earlier struggles with some edits, but it looks like you got most of them... as far as punctuation, it looks like right here:
One cursed Him, "Save yourself and us"[.]
But one, "Remember me, Jesus"[.]
He turned and then responded thus,
"With Me your soul I'll draw"[.]
was where you stopped putting the punctuation inside the quotes.... from here down to the end of the poem (which a few exceptions)
above this, you changed them... I'm not sure if you got called away from the computer (that often happens to me)
at any rate, I'm sure you'll square it away.
Well done, this is a vast undertaking.
You've done a great job,
Cat
Comment Written 11-Feb-2016
reply by the author on 11-Feb-2016
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This has been really frustrating. So basically, all you have to say about this poem is concerned with it's damn punctuation. I had one person tell me that the punctuation never goes inside the quotation marks. What I thought, and Gynt too, is that if it is specifically related to the quote, then inside, if part of a large overall sentence, then outside. No you are telling me the all go inside. To make matter worse, because of the indentation of this format, I had to use the advanced editor. My lettering is light. The editor presents it against a white background, regardless of the background I am using. So, in this case, it is practically invisible, particularily the punctuation. Since I have a tendency to fat finger things, I introduce problems when I edit, and can't tell it until I save, and then read it.
I also had to interpret everyone's corrections. It would have been so much easier to just say put the periods and commas inside. I gone into this edit about 100 times now.
Anyway, I looked it up myself, now. Here is the rule: Commas and periods that are part of the overall sentence go inside the quotation marks, even though they aren?t part of the original quotation. Unless they are part of the original quotation, all marks other than commas or periods are placed outside the quotation marks.
So I am still messed up, but I'm not going in there again,
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LOL, well, I usually only will talk about religious poetry as it applies to the structure of poems, you know that.
I have no opinion, one way or the other (well, that's not true) as to the validity or the subject matter, but no one wants to hear it. It's not my favorite theme. Anyone else had written it, and I would have passed it altogether. I certainly wouldn't have spent an hour editing it. I did that because I care about YOU. As a person, as a poet. Period.
I'm sure it's a find piece of poetic work. It just doesn't appeal to me, personally. I'm sorry about that, but that's a failing in ME, you know? I don't care for 'Christian poetry". Had it had more of a spiritual feel, more emotion in it.... ok, I would have been all in there. But it didn't. It was a historical thing.
So I went to the part I felt I could be of help with.
If I messed that up, I'm sorry.
I'm used to reading dialogue.
As it pertains to dialogue, I read works like humpwhistle writes, and he puts the punctuation inside the quotes. I know he's doing it right, and so... that's how I'm editing. That's how I learned.
Like I said, I"m sorry if did it wrong.
I'm also sorry that advanced editor is someone irritating for everyone else. I happen to like it ok. It works for me. Except when I'm using a dark background and light letters, and then, I have to turn them black. If you're using black letters, don't use the black that's in the far upper left corner that is separate from the block of colors, that will make it dingy looking. The brighter one it right below it.
That's about all I can tell you about that. Lighten your background a little. There are problems with advanced editor and the naming should be changed.
You should have enough confidence by now with your writing, that MY lack of gushing won't make or break you. You know that I enjoy your work.
I like the free verse BETTER from you. And I've made no secret of that as well.
I like it when you are unconstrained. It shows another side to you... one without tethers.
I won't apologize for that.
I tend to like naked men.
so sue me. ;)
YOu should know, by now, my respect, admiration, and yes.... undying friendship and love for you. ;)
I don't have to stroke you about a religious poem. It makes me uncomfortable. (but that's on me, ok?)
I still think you're awesome.
We good? mwah!
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No we're not. Just because it's a religious theme doesn't mean you should overlook the poetic value. First of all, I rocked this format. It's a work of art, that really brings forward the power of it's layout. My rhyming was spectacular and inventive. I used lots of alliteration very cleverly. The whole thing flows exceptionally.
This was to be my masterpiece for the month. I thought I might get a six from you, Gynt, and possibly Tony, and was hoping for more, so that I could pull myself up the rankings at least a little bit. Instead I get a 4 from Gynt, and a brush off from you. So far, I've invested about 3 days and $50 in this poem. I have gotten 20 reviews (not even 25) and 2 sixes. At this point I feel like trashing the damn thing. Now I'm depressed and need to pout for a few days.
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First of all... I didn't even HAVE a six. Believe me, I wanted to give you a six, BOTH of us did. How could we with so many mistakes, Tom?
If I got all the sixes I BELIEVED I should? LOL
And you really really think I brushed you off?
I did 3/4's of that edit MYSELF NOT Gynt... ME.
I spent over an hour, with a sick dog and one in pain, right by me... myself, having to get up, take them out...
and falling behind all the time.
I'm sorry I couldn't hold your hand.
If we're not 'ok' it's not because I didn't try.
YES, it's a masterpiece, I agree.
Do I care for the subject matter? no.
Did I care for any of Gyn't Druid pieces? No, not really... But I appreciate the work and care put into ALL of them... yours included... Just because it's a Pantygynt, and it's long... you expected it to get what? accolades?
I like to be moved.
Had I had a six.... .I most likely would have given it for mere EPIC PROPORTION poetry. I did not have one. Sorry...
wow.
now... when you're finished pouting... some back and read this... i"m sure you're going to be VERY embarrassed that this is now here for everyone to read.
:(
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Ok, OK, UNCLE! I didn't mean to devalue your caring or effort. I'm sorry.
Just venting my frustration. Not just at you. It's just everything. I'm having a bad 2016, so far.
Let's hug and make up!
You guys are great!
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((((((((Tom)))))))) ;)
Some days we're the doggie, some days we're the tree, Tom LOL ;)
mwah!
Comment from nancy_e_davis
You did a fine job here Tom. The story of the death of Christ. You did well with the imagery and with a little work you could get the Iams in it where they are missing. I did stumble a few times but it is a story that never gets old. Well told Tom. xsx Nancy
reply by the author on 10-Feb-2016
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You did a fine job here Tom. The story of the death of Christ. You did well with the imagery and with a little work you could get the Iams in it where they are missing. I did stumble a few times but it is a story that never gets old. Well told Tom. xsx Nancy
Comment Written 10-Feb-2016
reply by the author on 10-Feb-2016
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Thank you Nancy.
Comment from Sandra Stoner-Mitchell
Again, I am sorry not to be able to give you a six, Tom. This is really a fantastic poem, so well written. The crucifixion always makes me feel goose-pimply, how could they have done it to Him? Just over 2000 years ago, He moved among us. Would we treat Him any better today? Would we believe He was Him? I hope I am never tested, yet, how I would love to meet Him. Wonderful poem and the Pantygynt style worked perfectly. Well done, my friend. xssx Sandra.
reply by the author on 10-Feb-2016
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Again, I am sorry not to be able to give you a six, Tom. This is really a fantastic poem, so well written. The crucifixion always makes me feel goose-pimply, how could they have done it to Him? Just over 2000 years ago, He moved among us. Would we treat Him any better today? Would we believe He was Him? I hope I am never tested, yet, how I would love to meet Him. Wonderful poem and the Pantygynt style worked perfectly. Well done, my friend. xssx Sandra.
Comment Written 10-Feb-2016
reply by the author on 10-Feb-2016
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Thank you very much Sandra.
Comment from Pantygynt
This is a marathon effort, Tom. If you'd taken him down and buried him into the bargain you would have all 14 Stations of the Cross. I couldn't make up my mind as to whether this read more like the bible or one of the medieval mystery cycle plays plays that the trade guilds used to put on in England's major cities on Corpus Christi day. A synthesis of both I think.
I've always thought the pantygynt was a good form for narrative, especially when there are opposing points of view, and this proves it. I would just love to give this a six but, Tom I can't. There is just too much SPAG in there. But I will be bookcasing it as I hope to do with all the pantygynts I come across.
I discovered that Cat had got half way through the SPAG corrections when she keeled over and passed her work on to me to complete. There being no point in two people producing the same goodies. Cat has seen this review and is agreement with me that at this stage it merits only 4. But if you attend to what we have said here and let me know. I will upgrade it to 5. FS will not allow upgrading to 6 as you are probably aware. I hope you are not too disappointed at this stage.
"Then crucify him(,)"[,] Pilot said. I presume when the personal pronoun is spoken by an unbeliever you are not capitalizing as a convention.
"Before the day's out he'll be dead(,)"
"May God forgive them(,)"[,] Jesus prayed
'(g)[G]ainst evil and the good
"It made His vision dim." ('left' might be a better substitution for 'made')
"Was innocent of sin(.)"
"On cobbled road He bore His load(,)"
"The whole world's sins [to](on) Him bestowed," (Perhaps better)
"So healing could begin(.)"
"Let's watch Him die today(!)"[!]
"Where refuse wash(ed) away."
"And forced a passer[s]-by"
"Veronica then wiped His face.
Upon the cloth, blood left its trace[,](.)
[As] soon[,] (after, they)[the group] resumed the pace, (To)Where [pain and nails stood by] (the nails were nigh.) (I am somewhat uneasy about your personification in this line.
"Efficiently the Romans made(,)
Of wooden beams that crossed,
A platform(,) where condemned [are](were) laid[.](,)
Their garments stripped and tossed.
"[Then Jesus](They spread [His] (the) arms [out](of Jesus) wide."
{This next bit worried me. The second line had a distinctly 21st century feel about it. I think the culprit was "interface".}
"Now soldiers played a different role,
Exerting muscle interface
As cross was lifted to the hole,
And dropped into its place"
{May I respectfully suggest the following for the quatrain}
(The soldiers in a different role,
Grip firm the cross and brace
themselves to lift it to the hole,
where it was dropped in place)
"As sorr[t]ow filled the space."
"to advertise their crimes(.)"
"The sun('s) exposure was the worst."
"Then Jesus cried out loud, "I thirst"[,](.)"
"The Romans gambled for his cloth(e)s,
A token for their toil(s)[,]"
"The [G](g)uards turned back to crowd control.
You have a choice here:
"To them the punishments they dole,
(Is) Are just a job well done.
or
To them the punishment[s] they dole,
Is just a job well done."
This next is a case of not quite saying what you want it to. It is the Sabbath hour that will be soured by this action. As you have it here it looks like it is the other way round:
"Let's hurry up and get this done,
Before the Sabbath hour."
The Jews asked the Centurion.
"Let not this action sour."
So once again I respectfully suggest the following:
"Let's hurry up and get this done,
Let not this action sour."
- spake Jews to the Centurion. -
"the holy Sabbath hour."
[As] All evil spirits cower. {This is a sentence on its own so we can't use "as"}
"This crowd must be dis[bu](pe)rsed" {I don't think they were going to pay them. Lol.
As final sacrifice, foremost[.](,)
Christ Jesus just gave up His ghost[,](.)
Cat had made a lot corrections to your capitalization of of every line. I have not included those here. These days it is unusual to see it and it plays hell with the punctuation, which is very important here given the often complex sentence structure. Our feeling is that you should capitalize according to punctuation and not on a line by line basis. This is completely aside from the "religious" convention with the personal pronouns.
Second Review.
Having received your pm regarding the corrections made here and I am happy to say that having re read the piece I am more than happy to award 5 stars this time around. I think you will shortly get a review and grading from the Cat.
reply by the author on 10-Feb-2016
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This is a marathon effort, Tom. If you'd taken him down and buried him into the bargain you would have all 14 Stations of the Cross. I couldn't make up my mind as to whether this read more like the bible or one of the medieval mystery cycle plays plays that the trade guilds used to put on in England's major cities on Corpus Christi day. A synthesis of both I think.
I've always thought the pantygynt was a good form for narrative, especially when there are opposing points of view, and this proves it. I would just love to give this a six but, Tom I can't. There is just too much SPAG in there. But I will be bookcasing it as I hope to do with all the pantygynts I come across.
I discovered that Cat had got half way through the SPAG corrections when she keeled over and passed her work on to me to complete. There being no point in two people producing the same goodies. Cat has seen this review and is agreement with me that at this stage it merits only 4. But if you attend to what we have said here and let me know. I will upgrade it to 5. FS will not allow upgrading to 6 as you are probably aware. I hope you are not too disappointed at this stage.
"Then crucify him(,)"[,] Pilot said. I presume when the personal pronoun is spoken by an unbeliever you are not capitalizing as a convention.
"Before the day's out he'll be dead(,)"
"May God forgive them(,)"[,] Jesus prayed
'(g)[G]ainst evil and the good
"It made His vision dim." ('left' might be a better substitution for 'made')
"Was innocent of sin(.)"
"On cobbled road He bore His load(,)"
"The whole world's sins [to](on) Him bestowed," (Perhaps better)
"So healing could begin(.)"
"Let's watch Him die today(!)"[!]
"Where refuse wash(ed) away."
"And forced a passer[s]-by"
"Veronica then wiped His face.
Upon the cloth, blood left its trace[,](.)
[As] soon[,] (after, they)[the group] resumed the pace, (To)Where [pain and nails stood by] (the nails were nigh.) (I am somewhat uneasy about your personification in this line.
"Efficiently the Romans made(,)
Of wooden beams that crossed,
A platform(,) where condemned [are](were) laid[.](,)
Their garments stripped and tossed.
"[Then Jesus](They spread [His] (the) arms [out](of Jesus) wide."
{This next bit worried me. The second line had a distinctly 21st century feel about it. I think the culprit was "interface".}
"Now soldiers played a different role,
Exerting muscle interface
As cross was lifted to the hole,
And dropped into its place"
{May I respectfully suggest the following for the quatrain}
(The soldiers in a different role,
Grip firm the cross and brace
themselves to lift it to the hole,
where it was dropped in place)
"As sorr[t]ow filled the space."
"to advertise their crimes(.)"
"The sun('s) exposure was the worst."
"Then Jesus cried out loud, "I thirst"[,](.)"
"The Romans gambled for his cloth(e)s,
A token for their toil(s)[,]"
"The [G](g)uards turned back to crowd control.
You have a choice here:
"To them the punishments they dole,
(Is) Are just a job well done.
or
To them the punishment[s] they dole,
Is just a job well done."
This next is a case of not quite saying what you want it to. It is the Sabbath hour that will be soured by this action. As you have it here it looks like it is the other way round:
"Let's hurry up and get this done,
Before the Sabbath hour."
The Jews asked the Centurion.
"Let not this action sour."
So once again I respectfully suggest the following:
"Let's hurry up and get this done,
Let not this action sour."
- spake Jews to the Centurion. -
"the holy Sabbath hour."
[As] All evil spirits cower. {This is a sentence on its own so we can't use "as"}
"This crowd must be dis[bu](pe)rsed" {I don't think they were going to pay them. Lol.
As final sacrifice, foremost[.](,)
Christ Jesus just gave up His ghost[,](.)
Cat had made a lot corrections to your capitalization of of every line. I have not included those here. These days it is unusual to see it and it plays hell with the punctuation, which is very important here given the often complex sentence structure. Our feeling is that you should capitalize according to punctuation and not on a line by line basis. This is completely aside from the "religious" convention with the personal pronouns.
Second Review.
Having received your pm regarding the corrections made here and I am happy to say that having re read the piece I am more than happy to award 5 stars this time around. I think you will shortly get a review and grading from the Cat.
Comment Written 10-Feb-2016
reply by the author on 10-Feb-2016
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Oh my, I am devastated. But I take most of your points, and was thinking of making some of those myself ( such as the Sabath quatrain). The main issue seems to be with punctuating quotes, as to whether it should be inside or out. I have to work on it.
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I knew you would be, but with all those edits we decided we couldn't do anything else. The quick fix is to get rid of all your uppercase line starts and capitalize to the punctuation. The rule about quotes and punctuation is that if the punctuation applies to the quote then it goes inside the quote. If it applies to the whole sentence as well as the quoted bit it goes outside.
Please let me know when done so I can regrade and ask Cat to pass it through on the nod. For your ten stars.
Comment from Ben Colder
Need a six for this one. I think there is a film coming out soon or they are advertising such. The trouble with a film they take away vital parts. You capture the scriptures and make this poem interesting. Well done. Have you ever noticed how dark things got just before He released His spirit back to the Father? There is a revelation in this.
reply by the author on 10-Feb-2016
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Need a six for this one. I think there is a film coming out soon or they are advertising such. The trouble with a film they take away vital parts. You capture the scriptures and make this poem interesting. Well done. Have you ever noticed how dark things got just before He released His spirit back to the Father? There is a revelation in this.
Comment Written 10-Feb-2016
reply by the author on 10-Feb-2016
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Thank you very much Ben.
Comment from Dean Kuch
This is a wonderfully written, spiritually driven 'Gynt by you, Tom. As the season draws nigh to lent, I recalled my own my early church rearing and Biblical education of going through the stations of the cross.
Christ's unselfish sacrifice ensured the salvation of all mankind. Not another such selfless act of redemption has ever come close to His.
Beautifully rhymed and metered, with a spell binding presentation.
This one's definitely a keeper, Tom.
Well done,
God bless...
~Dean
reply by the author on 10-Feb-2016
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This is a wonderfully written, spiritually driven 'Gynt by you, Tom. As the season draws nigh to lent, I recalled my own my early church rearing and Biblical education of going through the stations of the cross.
Christ's unselfish sacrifice ensured the salvation of all mankind. Not another such selfless act of redemption has ever come close to His.
Beautifully rhymed and metered, with a spell binding presentation.
This one's definitely a keeper, Tom.
Well done,
God bless...
~Dean
Comment Written 10-Feb-2016
reply by the author on 10-Feb-2016
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Thank you Dean. I am honored that you think so highly of it.
Comment from rhymelord
Dear Tom,
A powerful work and its (to me) unique format as laid out by you, succeeds in your aim, to bring alive the duality of the persons present. The rhyme and metre are exceptional and I believe I can see only one error (possibly a typo). In the final stanza:
"The soldiers rushed to help HIM die"
Best regards
Reg
reply by the author on 10-Feb-2016
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Dear Tom,
A powerful work and its (to me) unique format as laid out by you, succeeds in your aim, to bring alive the duality of the persons present. The rhyme and metre are exceptional and I believe I can see only one error (possibly a typo). In the final stanza:
"The soldiers rushed to help HIM die"
Best regards
Reg
Comment Written 10-Feb-2016
reply by the author on 10-Feb-2016
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Thanks Reg. actually I meant Them, because the broke the legs of the other two, but Jesus got the spear. So it was about the three .
Comment from Sandra du Plessis
The saddest ancient story in the history of man kind. On the other hand all that happened had a purpose and was planned by God himself and we should be thankful each day for His Sacrifice.
reply by the author on 10-Feb-2016
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The saddest ancient story in the history of man kind. On the other hand all that happened had a purpose and was planned by God himself and we should be thankful each day for His Sacrifice.
Comment Written 09-Feb-2016
reply by the author on 10-Feb-2016
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Thank you Sandra. Yes, we certainly should.
