2020 Vision
Viewing comments for Chapter 2 "O come, all ye.."Creating the future
2 total reviews
Comment from robyn corum
Cogitator,
This piece is well-written, classically so. But it is so clear that you have your own ingrained beliefs and they color everything you say. *smile* It's funny to me that you explain how there is really no truth other than life and breath and being - all else is an illusion. But this is a belief, in itself, is it not?
There are so many points here I disagreed with. To name them all would take almost as much space as your post. *smile* But here are a few:
1.) Every ism is at least partially false,
--> why? To those of us who believe absolutely in the Truth we read in the Bible - why do you think we must be wrong and you must be right? There is more to faith than just 'blind faith' in what we read. Sooo much more. If you are an avid student of the scriptures -- you would see so much physical evidence of what we believe in.
2.) We must agree that we often project a false front for others to evaluate.
--> this may be partially true - there is a difference, often, in the 'public' self and the 'private' self. But the folks at home who we live with know our true selves, don't you think?
3.) Misogyny is common in scriptural texts.
--> I don't agree. Men and women have roles. If those roles are followed, each can be happy. The man was placed a little above the woman- but his job is to care for her as much as he cares for himself - or more. When couples follow this plan - there is no issue.
4.) Why would a Supreme Being acknowledge other gods?
--> God, Himself demands our loyalty. Undivided. ('He is a jealous God' -- a reference to one of your next points.) He does not 'acknowledge' other gods - but acknowledges that man often puts other things above Him. Whether they be a 'god of the sun', a Pharoah, or money. Notice the difference between:
--> I am the Lord they God (capped) - thou shalt halve no other 'gods' (lower case) before Me
5.) God has no name, no face, and contains no human foibles like anger, jealousy, etc.
--> I've already referred to this. Ex.20:5: "Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God"
--> Ps 7:11: "God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day."
--> we also have verses that show Jesus weeping, angry, etc
That's enough. I'm not sure you'll even listen to what I'm saying so there's no need to go on, right?
This has been fascinating, truly.
I thought you might permit me to add my own quote to the discussion:
"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture."
-- Thomas Paine, The American Crisis
Thanks so much for your time!
reply by the author on 13-Dec-2020
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Cogitator,
This piece is well-written, classically so. But it is so clear that you have your own ingrained beliefs and they color everything you say. *smile* It's funny to me that you explain how there is really no truth other than life and breath and being - all else is an illusion. But this is a belief, in itself, is it not?
There are so many points here I disagreed with. To name them all would take almost as much space as your post. *smile* But here are a few:
1.) Every ism is at least partially false,
--> why? To those of us who believe absolutely in the Truth we read in the Bible - why do you think we must be wrong and you must be right? There is more to faith than just 'blind faith' in what we read. Sooo much more. If you are an avid student of the scriptures -- you would see so much physical evidence of what we believe in.
2.) We must agree that we often project a false front for others to evaluate.
--> this may be partially true - there is a difference, often, in the 'public' self and the 'private' self. But the folks at home who we live with know our true selves, don't you think?
3.) Misogyny is common in scriptural texts.
--> I don't agree. Men and women have roles. If those roles are followed, each can be happy. The man was placed a little above the woman- but his job is to care for her as much as he cares for himself - or more. When couples follow this plan - there is no issue.
4.) Why would a Supreme Being acknowledge other gods?
--> God, Himself demands our loyalty. Undivided. ('He is a jealous God' -- a reference to one of your next points.) He does not 'acknowledge' other gods - but acknowledges that man often puts other things above Him. Whether they be a 'god of the sun', a Pharoah, or money. Notice the difference between:
--> I am the Lord they God (capped) - thou shalt halve no other 'gods' (lower case) before Me
5.) God has no name, no face, and contains no human foibles like anger, jealousy, etc.
--> I've already referred to this. Ex.20:5: "Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God"
--> Ps 7:11: "God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day."
--> we also have verses that show Jesus weeping, angry, etc
That's enough. I'm not sure you'll even listen to what I'm saying so there's no need to go on, right?
This has been fascinating, truly.
I thought you might permit me to add my own quote to the discussion:
"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture."
-- Thomas Paine, The American Crisis
Thanks so much for your time!
Comment Written 12-Dec-2020
reply by the author on 13-Dec-2020
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I stopped taking things personally after reading de Ruiz' "The Four Agreements." That eliminated my capacity to judge, thereby eliminating prejudice.
Thomas Paine's quote indicates a materialistic point of view. An idealist may say:
To argue with someone whose intellect and reasoning have been shuttered and locked away by fantasy and judgment is ludicrous. We can lead anyone to knowledge, but we can't make them think.
Mary Baker Eddy: "Spiritual understanding reveals that all elements of consciousness are connected within one Mind. That mind is omniscient, omnipresent, and omniscient." Giving credit to some anthropomorphized image with human traits is a copout. You and I create futures from our individual point of view. We should improve each other's view by communicating with each other honestly. We create by imagining a better State of Being and accessing the Universal powers of Mind and Balance.
Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom must stand firm on Truth. Honesty is the first chapter of wisdom. Wisdom processes trivial knowledge by either connecting it to the existing Truth base or discarding it to the trash bin.
Very happy
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Yep. But there's the wisdom of the world and then something far better.
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No
Comment from GE Parson
Whew! What a bunch of stuff to read though! From 'ism' to mutual masturbation. One must be a multi-subjectism to keep all this in one cranium basket and not spill a little along the path of *kindergarden to the gravegarden. [* Kindergarden of life to the grave] I am a student of the Bible and could refute about 99.9% of every subject you touched on, but experience has taught me that a "mind made up to vain babblings is a mind shut up to Divine teaching" so I don't waste my time trying to teach a mind premade up to reject Truth. Jerry
reply by the author on 12-Dec-2020
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Whew! What a bunch of stuff to read though! From 'ism' to mutual masturbation. One must be a multi-subjectism to keep all this in one cranium basket and not spill a little along the path of *kindergarden to the gravegarden. [* Kindergarden of life to the grave] I am a student of the Bible and could refute about 99.9% of every subject you touched on, but experience has taught me that a "mind made up to vain babblings is a mind shut up to Divine teaching" so I don't waste my time trying to teach a mind premade up to reject Truth. Jerry
Comment Written 12-Dec-2020
reply by the author on 12-Dec-2020
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The Bible refutes common sense in my book. Nothing personal in observing what people do. Words can be manipulated to deliver multiple meaning, depending of the recipient. Resistance to Natural Law is what creates religion. (I don't want to take the time to understand, so I'll assign responsibility to my imaginary friend) attitude. Truth is not established by majority rule.
Your review is a reflection of your attitude, not mine. I only seek to have others reach deeper for understanding that existence is not subject to interpretation by our puny brain. The Kingdom of God is indeed within us--ALL of us. We need to judge our ignorance, not other beings.
This may be the start of our own relationship's evolution. Thank you for your review....John
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You may benefit from previous chapters, if interested...John
