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CD Richards

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RE: Who could've predicted it?
Judiverse:

You're quite right. Calling people with different belief systems "stupid" is something that shouldn't be tolerated.

Perhaps if you have a word with Lance, he'll stop with the personal stuff and stick to facts, of which so far he's addressed not a single one.


CD Richards

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RE: Who could've predicted it?
Message edited:

While I think of it, let me just recall this gem from earlier in the discussion:


(Lancellot to me): "...hating on America is all you do."


It's not an isolated allegation, it's repeated many times throughout the thread.


Isn't the irony delicious?


Here we have a bunch of people whining about the crime rate, the housing crisis, unemployment, and, of course, bleating about the immigration "debacle"; in short, rubbishing America.  And I'm here lending my voice in support of the actions of the government most Americans voted for in the last election... but somehow I'm the "hater"?


Priceless!



Scarbrems


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RE: Who could've predicted it?
Hello, everyone. I thought about starting a new thread, but decided to post on this one whilst it has traction.
Lance, you have expressed a lack of understanding about why those not from America post about America. Why do we care?
I have posted this before, but I would like to answer in context of this discussion.
I have posted in objection to endless post about Trump, etc. There are 193 countries in the world. Why, then, is America front and centre? Why do the rest of us care who your President is, how many immigrants you take, etc.
The answer is simple. America put herself there. It's the modern continuation of colonialism.
I am with you, Lance, in that I would prefer we all kept in our own lanes in many ways, but ever since people started building means of transport to get us big distances, the world has steadily shrunk.
Exportable media in the form of TV and film enabled forward thinking nations, mainly the UK and America to continue their colonial history by infiltrating other countries not with soldiers but with entertainment. America is better at positive TV than the UK. Slick shows depicting how wonderful America is. I grew up with the notion of America as some sort of dream nation where everything was bigger and better. You don't want people turning up uninvited to your nation. Maybe your nation shouldn't have spent so much money selling it's virtues across the planet.
So, why did it? Simply put, because it's a method of gaining and retaining power. It's not politically correct these days to 'own' half the globe in the way the UK once did.
Like it or not, Lance, your nation is in a position of power and influence. A position that it has honed and cultivated for it's own benefit. Your President, however much I might not like it, matters to the rest of the world because of that influence.
The fact is, America as a nation cannot expect to spend the majority of the post war years boasting to the world about itself, involving itself in world politics and putting itself in every way imaginable into the world's doings and then complain it just wants to be left alone.
When I have raised this before, I have usually had responses along the lines of 'well, if not America, then Russia or China would be the primary influencers'. Whilst I don't disagree with that, it still doesn't change the fact that America is in that position because, primarily, of the benefits to itself.
If you don't want this, if you don't want people from other nations feeling they have some rights to concern themselves in other people's affairs, if you don't want people from other nations trying to get into the self-styled 'promised land', petition your government to back off from its involvement in everyone else's wars/affairs.
If you want the President of the United States to be no concern of anyone else, then petition for the President of the United States to take a back seat in world politics. None of us would give a flying fig if said President's words and actions didn't have so much influence.
The trouble is, if America did back away, reduce itself to being just another one of the 193, you would lose the benefits that come with that, wouldn't you? The lucrative trade agreements, the ability to mine the resources of other nations, the power.
You can't have it all ways. With great power and wealth comes responsibility.
You don't want it, fine. Give it away. But, as you keep saying, that isn't human nature.
I am not against looking after your own. But we can't turn back the clock. We live in a global community. We can't just shut our front door and say,, 'sorry, not today', unless you want to remove every single one of America's business interests of every nation it has planted itself in.
Half my country's big industry is owned by the nation you tell me I have no right to comment on. And yes, that's our own fault for selling it, but it does give me a bit of a vested interest in who your President is, and how your nation is fairing, don't you see?
The media influence your nation exerts over mine and others is staggering. A colleague of mine years ago, who hailed from Jamaica once said, 'when America sneezes, Jamaica catches cold'.
It's up to all of us to stop allowing that level of influence, but if we did, you wouldn't like it. As a nation, I mean, not individually. Because the loss of that influence means loss of power and that would equate to loss of wealth.
As individuals, l sympathise with your predicament. The UK is still paying dearly for its time in the sun as more literal colonialists. Our Empire building left us with obligations we can't meet for the damage we did and much of our immigration problems issue from our own foreign policy.
Nations which never tried the own the world, which don't aspire to influence it, which, in short, mind their own damn business, get to quietly worry about their own problems. But they aren't as rich as us, don't get the same benefit from the world trade stage and often find themselves being ripped off by us.
They don't have hordes of illegal immigrants, maybe. But then, they have no power or money to legally worm their way into other nations, buy up all their resources and then turn around and act like they are doing those nations a favour.
What you, as an individual, do in other countries is of no consequence. It's great you visited them and didn't break their laws, etc. Unfortunately, what your nation does as a whole has a bigger impact. Asking us to refrain from questioning the behaviour within a culture that has been so massively influential in so many ways and continues to be so is effectively asking us to refrain from doing what you keep saying it's human nature to do. Trying to protect ourselves.

CD Richards

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RE: Who could've predicted it?
Hello Emma, I see your relocation has necessitated a name change. Hope you've settled in well. Is your old place on Sark for rent, by any chance?

Have you had a promotion in the ranks recently, or have you owned that feather for ages and I'm just very unobservant? (I'm banking on the latter).

Anyway, nice to hear a voice of reason and sanity. Welcome back.


Scarbrems


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RE: Who could've predicted it?
Our old place is now a holiday let. It's odd seeing it on the tourism website. Life back on the big Island is good, if somewhat colder.
I got the feather a few years ago, when I was last really active as a writer. I do intend to resurrect writing, hence my reappearance here. Not just going to argue on the forum, honestly.

CD Richards

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RE: Who could've predicted it?
Glad to hear it, especially since it contains the word "just".

I've been writing more outside the forum myself lately. Got a new little ditty coming shortly that is sure to win friends and influence people. Because that's what we're here for, right?

It will be summer here very soon, and indications are it's going to be brutal. I'll be onto that real estate agent first thing in the morning.


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lancellot


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RE: Who could've predicted it?
Oh, it's Scarbrems now. It's been awhile.

Well, you make good points. I think it is more complicated than that, but I concede time and space limits how deep one can go. With great power comes great responsibility, works for Spider-man but that's fantasy. The world and individual choices are more complex, even the choices of individual nations. Who forces who to follow others. Who forces one to consume ideas, media, or culture? Who stops a nation from charting their own course or following another?

Does every citizen agree with the choices a democratic republic makes? No. And there are many things my country does and did, I disagree with and have spoken and voted against. But we all know how democracy works.

Now, personally, I'm fine with The US withdrawal from many things on the World stage. I advocate for it. I think we would be a better nation if we pulled back considerably. I've been all around the US, from Alaska to Hawaii. I don't think we really need the rest of the world for much of anything, not resources, defense, labor, and wealth. I think a true audit of all the US has, would reveal, we have everything we need. But, politics, greed, corporations are something beyond my control.

Now, does the world need America? Hmm. What would happen if America did pull back, and say, "Okay, you all don't like us. You all mock and complain about us. Fine. Then we'll take our ball and go home. Play without us."

One need only look back at the last two World Wars to guess what would happen.

But, this thread isn't about that. Like I said, History, and colonialism is a very complicated thing. It is not as simple a thing as it may appear to some on the surface. The US and UK were not the only people to colonize others, on a large or small scale. We are only seem to be the only nations who get blamed negatively for what others did or would've done if they had the means. History should be examined carefully. There were no complete sinners or saints.


CD Richards

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RE: Who could've predicted it?
Oh, the hubris.

My ex-wife was always late to the party too, and vastly overestimated her contribution to it.

Scarbrems


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RE: Who could've predicted it?
Yes, I couldn't keep calling myself Sarkems now my address has changed, lol.
To be fair, Lance, if someone from another nation was making similar comments about immigration (and believe me, there are plenty from my own and, by the sounds of it, Craig's, who would), they would get the same response.
But they aren't here.
We have sort of had this discussion before about why we aren't talking about other countries who do this or that.
From my point of view, the very simple reason is that there's no point in talking about what other countries did in the past or do now when there are no representatives from the countries here to talk about it from their perspective.
I certainly don't deny the fact that other countries have done similar, or would do similar. But they aren't here sharing any sort of position or perspective, and frankly I find the 'but others did it' argument a bit like the sort of argument you use as a kid - 'well, all my mates are doing it'. Why am I the only one getting the blame'.
Yes, I only scratched the surface of colonialism. Yes, it's complex in many ways, but the MOTIVE actually really isn't, no matter who does it and how. The results are far more complex than bad guys and good guys, but it really is all about land, power and wealth. Nobody ever colonises a nation for the benefit of the inhabitants of that nation, although that might be a by-product.


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lancellot


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RE: Who could've predicted it?
Message edited:

That is a very reasonable response, Scarbrems. I thank you for it, and I agree with most of it. Yes, I only say what other people did or would have done if they had the means, because it (at least in my view) isn't about Westerners or Easterners or whatever, but about humans. Humans, like many other savage animals, will use power, strength and so forth to take what they want. It is nature. Here's the thing. I am not against immigration. I am only against illegal immigration. I understand the importance of law and order for all. I feel for those wanting a better life. I would probably be just like them, and try to flee to America or Europe if I was born in Haiti or The Congo. I get it. BUT... I also understand what belongs and what does not belong to me. And being in need to food, does not give me the right to break into your house and take your food. It's understandable, but still wrong. Immigration is not the solution. The problem, what people are running away from, must be solved at the source.


I will post this vid again. And I strongly urge people to watch it.


 





   
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