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michaelcahill
rumours and innuendos
rumours of innuendos

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RE: Help end this brutal dictatorship
Reply on November 7, 2017 03:29 AM << Modifed November 7 at 3:34AM >>
To drive a car in the U.S.:

The car must be registered and insured. It must pass all safety and emission standards to be registered. You cannot simply sell a car to anyone. Whomever you sell the car to must then also register and insure the car as well. All cars have identifying tags to indicate that their registrations are current. If they don't have current tags they are towed away and the driver is either arrested or left standing by the side of the road.

To legally drive a car, the driver must pass a written test and a physical skills test to prove they are able to safely operate an automobile AND know the laws that pertain to operation of same. There are fleets of enforcement officers in traffic round the clock observing traffic and watching for any infraction of traffic laws of which there are many. After a certain number of violations, the driving privilege may be suspended or revoked.

The driver must be physically and mentally able to drive. If vision impaired, they must be wearing corrective lenses.

It goes on from there.

To get a gun, find someone with a gun for sale and buy it. PERIOD.

When Trump says it's a MENTAL PROBLEM, he sure as hell has that right.


And, by the way, Recon, at the Walmart shooting SEVERAL patrons were armed and pulled their weapons and did NOTHING with them except confuse the cops. So much for armed citizenry there.

Nothing but admiration for those two heroic men who stepped up to the plate. I'd bet a months pay they BOTH could pass any vetting regimen to legally purchase their firearms.


Sarkems
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because it tastes good.

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RE: Help end this brutal dictatorship
Reply on November 7, 2017 03:39 AM
OK, DJ, so maybe if all the congregation had been armed, perhaps only ten would have died as opposed to 26. Oh, good.

But even then, I doubt it. Even if everyone had been packing, the gunman's still got the element of surprise, and the type of weapon that can kill multiple people in a few seconds. Training? Even trained members of the armed forces would have a job dealing with a totally unexpected attack in a totally unexpected place. It's how come they aren't invincible, and they still die. And, let's face it, civilians with guns are hardly going to have the same intensive training as a member of the armed forces, because it isn't just about how to use your weapon. So, what? We put all civilians with a gun through basic army training (including those civilians with a gun who might, just might be the next nut job, because you can't always tell)?

Wouldn't it be simpler to look at how few people would have died if the lone gunman had only been able to get hold of a baseball bat?

Don't think I haven't noticed, by the way, that suddenly lone gunmen do, in fact, exist, and none of the conspiracies are suggesting the latest guy didn't manage to barge into a church on his own and massacre all those folks. But he might have been an atheist, so, hey, the problem is obviously the lack of Christianity, so let's force everyone to believe in the same thing, and then the problem will go away. You won't have the 'freedom' to believe what you like any more, but at least you'll still be able to cling on to the 'freedom' of owning a deadly weapon.

Here's a clue. Nut jobs are nut jobs. You can't legislate them away, they have always, and will always exist. What you CAN do is minimize the damage they cause, and you CAN do that through legislation. Maybe if you HAD, that story might have read something like this:

'A man burst into a church with a baseball bat, to the shock of the congregation. Five plucky members bore him to the ground. Seven people were taken to hospital with injuries ranging from bruises to broken arms.'

Can you not see the difference, there?

Let's say the same man had had a knife. OK, a knife-wielding maniac is harder to deal with, but you're still not looking at 26 dead.

However you look at it, the level of damage caused is down to the weapon, and the weapon alone. It's just so much easier.

And I might go so far as to suggest that there might be a reason why, in countries with fewer guns, you don't hear so much about the crazed madman with a knife or a baseball bat in a concert or a church. Even madmen have some sense of self-preservation, and if it hasn't been made easy for them, well, maybe they do think twice. It's a lot more effort to act on your impulses when you've only got a bat or a knife. Probably less satisfying than just being able to wipe out a lot of people in a matter of seconds. I wouldn't know, I'm not of that mindset. But it would be interesting to know, wouldn't it, how the choice of weapon and the immediacy of the kill affects the actions of the kinds of people who think killing people will silence the voices in their head, or whatever.

It would be great to live in a world where we don't have to even think about these questions, but we don't. And whilst we can certainly work towards living in a world where we don't have to be talking about this, in the meantime there is something very obvious that could be done to limit the damage. And it isn't shoving a weapon into the hands of every man, woman and child, and leaving them to get on with it.





reconciled

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RE: Help end this brutal dictatorship
Reply on November 7, 2017 03:48 AM
well..a lil' credit is a start.

it is a mental issue when you compare guns to cars
because cars are traveling at high speeds every day and night round the clock...and...theyre overcrowded on there "driven" trajectory paths. and indeed regulated for good reason. more accurate I think though the bullet in comparison. as a bullets aim is its pointers reasoning and I assure you the consequence of poor judgment or even righteous are life and death already.


michaelcahill
rumours and innuendos
rumours of innuendos

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RE: Help end this brutal dictatorship
Reply on November 7, 2017 03:56 AM
And yet you'd NOT regulate that which has ONLY deadly intentions. Why?

What do you think the motives of gun manufacturers and sellers are? What do you think the purpose of the NRA is?

CD Richards

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RE: Help end this brutal dictatorship
Reply on November 7, 2017 04:30 AM
It must be convenient to have eyewitnesses who are psychics too. And what exactly is proved by the fact that someone got a couple of shots into this guy? They prevented nothing.

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RE: Help end this brutal dictatorship
Reply on November 7, 2017 11:21 AM << Modifed November 7 at 11:23AM >>

It was stated by the military authorities that this man should not have been able to buy a gun, and there was a mistake in passing his information into the proper data base...the situation is going to be investigated by the all branches of the military groups...and needed changes to be made.

While I'm glad that there was the fellow that in a heroic act, did stop this murderer, saving more live, his gun was bought legally.

Some will never admit that there should be further background checks, and anything else that can be done to save lives...until one of their family members die by the hand of some man/woman determined to kill innocent people.

I don't know what the laws are in Texas, but I do know the laws in Illinois are strict, and yet those from Chicago, where there have been more than 500 gun murders this year so far, got their guns from neighboring Indiana where the laws are lighter..

I'm so glad there are those right here on this site, that can see that...All this talk about the rights to own a gun, means very little to that family that lost 8 members...If there was any chance they could still be at home with their families, any law should be in place..why is it that gun owners have any more right to live their lives than the rest of us to live...Money is the answer, the money the NRA gives to the Republicans...so that they can continue their campaigns to remain in office...and not until one of them losses their wife, husband, child or family member will they give their support of the NRA a second thought.

Just Some Thoughts!



DIS-illusioned

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RE: Help end this brutal dictatorship
Reply on November 7, 2017 05:27 PM
For your information, AnnaL, I did go to church--in Texas!--but was kicked out and banned on account I was trying to bleach-clean the 'stained' glass windows.

Bottom line is: Americans are in love with a bad thing--not so much an inherently bad thing, but a circumstantial / consequential one--guns!

And you know what they say about standing between a man and his love ....

CD Richards

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RE: Help end this brutal dictatorship
Reply on November 7, 2017 06:03 PM
One of the most perplexing things in the whole gun debate is the attitude of those who seem to grudgingly accept that the proliferation of deadly weapons might even be some sort of mistake, but that the only way to correct that mistake is by accumulating yet more of those weapons.

I'm not aware of any other contentious issue where this sort of logic is applied. Imagine if Abraham Lincoln had adopted the same approach to the issue of slavery:

"Well, yes, we see now that kidnapping people, keeping them in forced servitude, and murdering them if they don't comply with our every whim might not be the right thing to do. But what can we do about it now? We can't just let them all go - that would mean plantation owners would have to pick their own tobacco and cotton! Wait - I know - let's send more boats over to Africa, and kidnap yet more people; that way everyone will have just a tiny bit less to do."

Thank goodness Mr Lincoln didn't share the approach advocated by the current President, and his bedfellows in the NRA.

You put out a gasoline fire with water, not more gasoline.


DIS-illusioned

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RE: Help end this brutal dictatorship
Reply on November 7, 2017 06:39 PM
I dare say many were exactly of that mindset on slavery in Lincoln's time.

*Dramatically spitting out the tobakki I've been chewing since last week*
Guess you ain't seen the gas'lynn fires we's got in these parts, have ya, sonny?
Water wouldn't do a lick o' good. You's got to fight fire with fire! I says fire with fire, goddammit!

CD Richards

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RE: Help end this brutal dictatorship
Reply on November 7, 2017 07:18 PM
Oh cousin Caleb, you're a hoot :)

   
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