In Ivy
a ghazal61 total reviews
Comment from LIJ Red
Deliver me from English Ivy, it's worse than Kudzu, and now they say the main killer in Round-up is carcinogenic. I had not heard of the Khazal. Seems to work well.
reply by the author on 04-Dec-2017
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Deliver me from English Ivy, it's worse than Kudzu, and now they say the main killer in Round-up is carcinogenic. I had not heard of the Khazal. Seems to work well.
Comment Written 04-Dec-2017
reply by the author on 04-Dec-2017
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Thank you for your review, LIJ Red. Yes, deliver me from English ivy.
Comment from victor 66
A most interesting affirmation and involvement of the simple plant, ivy in a person's life. I noticed you didn't mention "poison ivy' anywhere in your poem. Of course with dog do in the ivy, it comes close. Best wishes.
reply by the author on 04-Dec-2017
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A most interesting affirmation and involvement of the simple plant, ivy in a person's life. I noticed you didn't mention "poison ivy' anywhere in your poem. Of course with dog do in the ivy, it comes close. Best wishes.
Comment Written 04-Dec-2017
reply by the author on 04-Dec-2017
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Yes, Victor, I deleted a couplet on poison ivy when I decided to only focus on the ivy which grew in the front yard of my childhood home. Thank you for your review and best wishes.
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You are most welcome, Sis Cat. Positive childhood memories are enviable. With me, it was the overgrown lilac bushes in the backyard.
Comment from estory
This is humorous and touching, and chock full of music and rhythm, and we see all these things that come in ivy; gifts of love, the hope of life, the tangled struggles of it, the messy things under it. all the repetitions kept bringing us back through revolutions to this center point. estory
reply by the author on 04-Dec-2017
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This is humorous and touching, and chock full of music and rhythm, and we see all these things that come in ivy; gifts of love, the hope of life, the tangled struggles of it, the messy things under it. all the repetitions kept bringing us back through revolutions to this center point. estory
Comment Written 04-Dec-2017
reply by the author on 04-Dec-2017
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Yes, yes, yes, estory, you got it. Ghazals are a musical form of poetry. Some have been put to music and sung. The repetitions serve as the center point, the axle of the poem while the lines are the spokes that radiate outwards and return to the center. One thing I love about ivy is that everything is tangled in it, both the good and the bad. Thank you for your detailed review.
Comment from Pantygynt
I found this a really interesting variation on the ghazal form, particularly as far as your claimed internal rhymes in the second lines of your couplets were concerned. Most words ending in the short 'y' sound such as 'ivy' naturally, in normal conversation, treat that final syllable as unstressed. Rhyme on an unstressed syllable in English poetry is generally referred to as 'feminine' rhyme but this is always described as rhyme over two syllables e.g. carry/marry. Rhyme as you have it over a single unstressed syllable in English poetry is rarely, if ever, regarded as being rhyme. John Donne gets away with it occasionally and possibly only where pronunciation may have varied.
Bearing in mind that the ghazal is not originally an English poetic form is not really relevant as the internal rhymes you claim for words like pottery/ivy and messy/ivy are not essential parts of the ghazal form. I do not believe that many poets would claim these as being rhymes. However they certainly add interest to the poem as a whole.
"The Modern Language Review of 1943 states:
THE RHYMING OF STRESSED WITH UNSTRESSED SYLLABLES
IN ELIZABETHAN VERSE
Metrists do not notice a peculiar form of rhyme-variation found from time to time in Elizabethan verse. Here are two examples from Donne:
the Hold and Wast
With a salt dropsie clog'd, and all our tacklings
Snapping, like too-high-stretched treble strings.
The Storme, 54-6
And jolly Statesmen, which teach how to tie
The sinews of a cities mystique bodie
Satyre I, 7, 8.
In these couplets the rhyme shifts awkwardly from a stressed to an unstressed syllable."
These days this is known as "wrenched rhyme" but yours is different again rhyming two equally unstressed syllables.
reply by the author on 04-Dec-2017
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I found this a really interesting variation on the ghazal form, particularly as far as your claimed internal rhymes in the second lines of your couplets were concerned. Most words ending in the short 'y' sound such as 'ivy' naturally, in normal conversation, treat that final syllable as unstressed. Rhyme on an unstressed syllable in English poetry is generally referred to as 'feminine' rhyme but this is always described as rhyme over two syllables e.g. carry/marry. Rhyme as you have it over a single unstressed syllable in English poetry is rarely, if ever, regarded as being rhyme. John Donne gets away with it occasionally and possibly only where pronunciation may have varied.
Bearing in mind that the ghazal is not originally an English poetic form is not really relevant as the internal rhymes you claim for words like pottery/ivy and messy/ivy are not essential parts of the ghazal form. I do not believe that many poets would claim these as being rhymes. However they certainly add interest to the poem as a whole.
"The Modern Language Review of 1943 states:
THE RHYMING OF STRESSED WITH UNSTRESSED SYLLABLES
IN ELIZABETHAN VERSE
Metrists do not notice a peculiar form of rhyme-variation found from time to time in Elizabethan verse. Here are two examples from Donne:
the Hold and Wast
With a salt dropsie clog'd, and all our tacklings
Snapping, like too-high-stretched treble strings.
The Storme, 54-6
And jolly Statesmen, which teach how to tie
The sinews of a cities mystique bodie
Satyre I, 7, 8.
In these couplets the rhyme shifts awkwardly from a stressed to an unstressed syllable."
These days this is known as "wrenched rhyme" but yours is different again rhyming two equally unstressed syllables.
Comment Written 04-Dec-2017
reply by the author on 04-Dec-2017
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Thank you, Jim, for your detailed, and informative review of my ghazal. I found your discussion of stressed and unstressed rhymes to be so thoroughly compelling that I have deleted the line in my author's notes in which I stated my poem had internal rhymes. While I will write another ghazal, your review contains information I can use when crafting rhymed, metered verse.
Thank you once again for your time, passion, and wisdom.
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Oh, thank you again, Jim, for your review of my first ghazal. I discovered that an internal rhyme is an essential part of a ghazal, but I had placed it in the wrong spot in the middle of the line instead of preceding the refrain. Given that this poem was a contest entry, I revised the poem to include the rhyme in the right position. Thank you for pointing out the rhyme weakness in my original ghazal. I am happy with my revisions. Thanks.
Comment from Ogden
Not surprisingly, there is more to this poem than, on firsrt reading, meets the eye. It clearly took some doing to fulfill the requirements of the form, while living up to your own standards.
Nice work, Andre, and good luck in the contest.
Don
reply by the author on 04-Dec-2017
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Not surprisingly, there is more to this poem than, on firsrt reading, meets the eye. It clearly took some doing to fulfill the requirements of the form, while living up to your own standards.
Nice work, Andre, and good luck in the contest.
Don
Comment Written 04-Dec-2017
reply by the author on 04-Dec-2017
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Thank you, Don, for your review. Yes, it took some doing to fulfill the requirements of this form which I am still exploring. Thanks.
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You are most welcome, Andre.
Comment from Brigitte Elko
Very nicely penned poetry. Ivy is a survivor in nature and you describe it in a unique way. The picture complements your well chosen words. Nicely done.
Fan Friend,
Brigitte
reply by the author on 04-Dec-2017
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Very nicely penned poetry. Ivy is a survivor in nature and you describe it in a unique way. The picture complements your well chosen words. Nicely done.
Fan Friend,
Brigitte
Comment Written 04-Dec-2017
reply by the author on 04-Dec-2017
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Thank you, Brigitte, for your review. Yes, ivy is a survivor. I am glad my poem captured it.
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My pleasure to read.
Brigitte
Comment from AndyBrown
Well done, it should be no surprise this piece has been award Recognized and All Time Best. I liked the repetitive use of ivy, and the piece as a whole.
reply by the author on 04-Dec-2017
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Well done, it should be no surprise this piece has been award Recognized and All Time Best. I liked the repetitive use of ivy, and the piece as a whole.
Comment Written 04-Dec-2017
reply by the author on 04-Dec-2017
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Yes, AndyBrown, I love the repetitive use of ivy. I am studying ghazals written in Urdu or translated and the poets used the repetitions to serve as beats to anchor the poem when read or sung. It is the center while the lines are the spokes. Thank you for your review.
Comment from Bill Schott
This ghazel, Ivy Love, is set up properly, accepting 'in ivy' as the repeated phrase. I like how your poem can be reduced to the moment the gift was received. The first couplet and last are a story in themselves. Nice.
reply by the author on 04-Dec-2017
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This ghazel, Ivy Love, is set up properly, accepting 'in ivy' as the repeated phrase. I like how your poem can be reduced to the moment the gift was received. The first couplet and last are a story in themselves. Nice.
Comment Written 04-Dec-2017
reply by the author on 04-Dec-2017
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Yes, Bill, I crafted my ghazal to tell a story that is bookended by the beginning and ending couplets. Thank you for your review.
Comment from rjuselius
This is a brilliant example of a ghazal poem dear andre! I love the imagery, it's borderline sarcastic and I find that my most favorite humor.
Thanks for sharing!
Blessings and a big squeeze!
Rebekka x
reply by the author on 04-Dec-2017
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This is a brilliant example of a ghazal poem dear andre! I love the imagery, it's borderline sarcastic and I find that my most favorite humor.
Thanks for sharing!
Blessings and a big squeeze!
Rebekka x
Comment Written 04-Dec-2017
reply by the author on 04-Dec-2017
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Oh, thank you, Rebekka, for your generous, six star review. I am glad you enjoyed the borderline, sarcastic humor of my ghazal.
Comment from robina1978
Nice photo of Ivy. It complements your poem very well. I understand from your foot note how you worked this in Couplets. I still don't like the all the repetition. But I still think you did this very cleverly.
reply by the author on 04-Dec-2017
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Nice photo of Ivy. It complements your poem very well. I understand from your foot note how you worked this in Couplets. I still don't like the all the repetition. But I still think you did this very cleverly.
Comment Written 04-Dec-2017
reply by the author on 04-Dec-2017
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Ah, Robina, but the repetition is the heart of the poem. I am studying ghazals written and sung in their original languages of Urdu or Pashto. The repetitions are used to anchor the poem or song. Imagine a wheel. The repetitions are the axle while the lines are the spokes. You go up and down the spokes with each line but always come back to the center, the repetition that serves as a beat. Thank you for your review.
