Comment from Dolly'sPoems

Excellent

There are those in life with no conscience, it could be that they have had a hard upbringing or don't have feelings for themselves, but these people do exist. A cold reminder of injustice, love Dolly x

 Comment Written 06-Nov-2017

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reply by the author on 08-Nov-2017

Thank you for reading and reviewing.

Comment from gramalot8

Excellent

Very good message. You definitely give us something to think about. It is always hard to cross those thresholds... but we have to gain courage to take that first step. Thanks for sharing this with us.

 Comment Written 06-Nov-2017

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reply by the author on 08-Nov-2017

Thank you for reading it.

Comment from Tim0443

Good

Definitely some powerful imagery here. The line "injustice is in season, and it's pulled his chest wide open" bothers me, because it's as if he is somehow justified in his rampage. Injustice or not, people are still ultimately responsible for their actions.

 Comment Written 06-Nov-2017

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reply by the author on 08-Nov-2017

Yes, such as those who perpetrated the initial injustice, eh?

Comment from krys123

Exceptional

Bravo, VictorTouche;
-you have mixed many knowledgeable in yet irritating thoughts of the truth and understanding how a man is trouble by his memory and the plight of his family and his wife.
-You have vehemently described, in a demonstratively way, the intense inner feelings of being violated and the reactions of a husband who goes madly after the perpetrators.
-I really enjoyed reading this is it is a story built into it. It needs not any personal telling.
-Thank you for sharing and take care and have a good one and well done.
Alex

 Comment Written 06-Nov-2017

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reply by the author on 08-Nov-2017

Thank you for reading this, Alex. And for the six, of course. (blushing)

reply by krys123 on 17-Nov-2017

You are very welcome my dear friend.
Alex

Comment from robina1978

Excellent

An excellent photo of burning crosses that complement your poem perfectly. I think you wrote here about all the mass murders and the consequences. I liked the read and review, you did so well.

 Comment Written 06-Nov-2017

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reply by the author on 08-Nov-2017

Thank you.Yes, I think it does work as well for the insanity of injustice in general. Thank you.

Comment from Sanku

Good

The anger comes across very well .The short lines brings together different pieces of a jigsaw puzzle .
human thoughts too can be in fragmented forms.The screms ,the violence ,his ramshackle house ....the images throws light into the aggression in his mind

This rating does not count towards story rating or author rank.
The highest and the lowest rating are not included in calculations.

 Comment Written 06-Nov-2017

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reply by the author on 08-Nov-2017

Thank you.

Comment from estory

Excellent

I liked the fragmented form of this, life is very often perceived like this. In bits and pieces of images and moments separated from each other that clump together in this fretted collage. I liked the contrasts you paint in it, of the beauty of the south in the spring, and the horror of the burning crosses, the hopes that flicker in the darkness of prejudice and fear. nice musical elements, especially here: "To have and then to hold her; He will split them all asunder" we get that sense of this painful, tortured love, the shards of desire mixed with the split of the axe or the shotgun. powerful piece estory

 Comment Written 06-Nov-2017

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reply by the author on 08-Nov-2017

My my, it is so pleasing to an author to run across a review, not only of intelligence, but down right literal understanding of what I hoped to accomplish in the writing. Almost like translating from another language. I am grateful and impressed.

reply by estory on 08-Nov-2017

Well, I had lots of training. I critiqued poetry and short fiction for years at Hofstra and having been reading and analyzing and writing for forty years now. estory

Comment from Liberty Justice

Excellent

What a devastating photo representing the pure evil of America's times. Your words seem to be words of defiance and courage of one man who fought back and might have died trying. In modern times, we are less tolerant of evil practices. lol liberty justice

 Comment Written 06-Nov-2017

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reply by the author on 08-Nov-2017

Yes, I hope we are less tolerant. But does it not seem to include more insanity, more injustice, and a very frayed and loosely held code of ethical behavior?

Comment from RGstar

Excellent

This would have been a six star, for I loved the poetic aura and strength of individual stanzas, but had difficulty in following , in terms of narrative, the journey, with daughter as a pivotal point, yet could not place her or why. I thought of the Klu Klux Klan, when seeing the crosses, but wasn't sure if this was also meant or liberal in just part. I think the image sets the reader in thought, even before the words are read, such the power of images when used correctly, or incorrectly.

If this was not about the Klan, another image would have loosened the load of expectance from the readers side so would read more open-mindedly.

I really liked your usage of the language in itself though, just difficulty holding on to that red thread of where and why.

My best wishes.
RG

 Comment Written 06-Nov-2017

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reply by the author on 08-Nov-2017

Hello my friend. I always consider it a privilege when you stop by. The photo of burning crosses is irrevocably tied to the KKK. Therefore I used it as starting point to the story because-1. It starts for the reader a rush to the fore a flood of images of prejudice, cruelty, injustice, closed minds. 2. I think it solidifies the story and makes the reading of it crystal clear. In terms of you following my thought process or the end point-my writing, well...I am surprised a bit why it does not flow for you. I think this has been fairly common for both of us when reading each other's work. It actually, consistently, brings forward the same thought in me everytim

reply by the author on 08-Nov-2017

Sorry, hit the wrong key. Continuing...Is English your native tongue? I would guess it as second. No offense meant. I think, by now, we realize this about each other. That conclusion, for me, explains almost all grammatical, sense of meaning, ability to follow, and all the etheral almost cloud-like differences of our use and interpretation of the English language. You obviously have a great command of it. But, and I don't know how to say this with tact, and am too stupid (or perhaps truthful) to not go through this discourse. I usually have some trouble following your work completely. I do get almost all of it, and feel I virtually always get the "gist" of it. But, I must say, it strikes me as someone who is writing in a tongue not native to him. It's just that with your intelligence, you have mastered to a high degree English. But I believe noone ever manages, no matter how proficient, to understand and use a language correctly to the most intimate detail without it being his original. For instance, I remember when you were nice enough to give me a vote as a reviewer for one of your pieces. I thought this quite mature on your part, especially because I had offered "corrections." Or perhaps "suggestions" is a better way to put it. But you pointed out to me that you had used a certain word (I can't remember which one) correctly. I read, thought, and considered your definition and proper usage of said word. But according to my understanding, instruction, and oft corrected use of this word through high school, that your understanding of it was simply not in line with what I have been taught. I said nothing. It wasn't that important. But it did seem to glare out at me that English must be this man's second laguage. So, in summary, if I am wrong, and English is your native tongue-I have rather made a case that is by necessity-1. wrong 2.perhaps wounding in analysis, and 3. If so, I deeply, and publically, apologize. I can't type anymore my friend, need coffee. LOL Could you please tell me if I am the great, but mythical, Sherlock Holmes? Or just a dufass. (smile) Yours truly, victortouche

reply by RGstar on 08-Nov-2017

I guess I wouldn't call you Sherlock, perhaps you would like to model yourself on such.

This is your second reply to my review of the same work, where I think the first may have sufficed as was in reference to what was meant.
However, this second has little to do with that fact, only to the fact that I said, I didn't quite follow the NARRATIVE, which is no insult or bad thing to say. The actual review was very positive, so I am astounded by your insults, or shall I say, you pop at something in anger rather than the polite natured individual I once thought.

Your reference to English, perhaps being my second language by the way I write, or understand what you yourself write, only reflects back at you thinking you have the Language covered, as evidently you do not.

I had not said your writing did not flow.

You often use short stubby lines, and therefore more difficult to understand the complete picture.

Let me refresh your mind as you have just mentioned a scenario in which I gave you a reviewing vote, though it was because of your negative criticism of "too." Let me remind you, as you say you have forgotten the situation.

Now, I did not reply in anger, as your understanding of the word in its role, meaning; 'as well as' not just in the conventional way, but a very English term in which all seem to understand.

I did not chastise you for not knowing or question your Nationality or heritage of language, or pointed to the fact that this is well known usage of the word and term for a native speaker. I may then ask you, if with your name, which could be seen as French, whether or not you were a native speaker that did not understand that simple term. It's a feature of my writing instead of the abrupt way could be used. It is almost in every write...and believe me, I have more.

Here are a few examples of what you felt was incorrect where 'too' is used to further reiterate and highlight the action preceding as to the same outcome. In order to refresh your mind;

The smoked had filled her lungs where he, too, had inhaled much of it.

She sang a song of yesterday, hoping he 'too' would remember its significance.

"Unopened my mouth, lest I shout, thus silent the words that bray
Yet would say, as death my door 'too' mark..." not this day, not this day"

The above is from the poem you reviewed, which won Poem Of The Month, and also where you thought 'Too' should not be used in this way.

I enter your review, and my gracious answer to it...not one of questioning your nationality or degrading your knowledge of the English language, instead, I explained the way used, as you are not familiar with the very English way of using the term as, perhaps a native speaker of England may do.

Your review on the subject of too.

My friend, please never take the forthcoming suggestions as any indication I don't respect your writing.

You sometimes become lost in my crypticness, so to speak.
I sometimes become lost in your heavy word play.

The first stanza is what troubles me. It is hard for me to follow. Would these minor cuts change too much?

1.red poppies sway as (the) sun....leave out (the).
2.line two-leave out (too), make creep-(creeps)
Then stanza rocks. (for me)

Your extensive vocabulary always shines.

Second stanza-shouldn't "too" be (to)?


My Reply

Victor, I like that you make suggestions my humble friend, and it is with all reference to enhance the write...which I love. Yes, creeps I changed recently from brays, but forgot to add the s as I was working around a plural before it.
I think with, 'too' it is a vocabulary thing I suspect. In English, school English. It is a very refined tool, or word to use in the aspect it is used in...not so familiar I can think with oversees, but you will find it used in many of my poems...it means ' as well as', but very much a shortened refined way of saying. When using ''too'' in this respect it adds to the emotion instead of having two separate things to say...therefore I say, as well as the sun bowing its head in the freshening breeze....double jeopardy for autumn is also closing in while summer fades drastically. So, 'too' keeps these emotions together rather than just listing them one after another, by which one loses the potency in mind. I haven't heard anyone yet use it this way, perhaps not familiar, yet, it is always good to hear from another excellent writer as to what he or her could suggest. I hope you can see around why it is used in that respect. I actually like its usage where it can be used this way.

I think my friend, I would have to keep ''the sun'' as ''sun'' would simply mean rays of it, and I think because the sun is being personalized with bowing its head, I must refer to the sun itself rather than just the rays of it where' sun' could be used.


As to 'too' in the second stanza...no, should not be 'to'

''Yet, would say, as death my door too mark.''

There it is again, the same usage where ''too'' plays a vital role for without it, there would be no connection to the fact that death had ALSO marked their door, and they are dead. The emphasis that too adds here is that ''death came and marked their door (metaphor for death calling them home or more direct, them dying) therefore means that death also asks his life, but he deifies and once again promises, or pledges, not to die that day. So, 'too' only adds the fact that he is confronted by death AS well as they were, and differently, he resists where they were taken...so it binds him and his comrades with the same question. That is why 'too' is used there...so once again, 'too' very important there.


''Hear your voices with the lark and robin sing a summer's day ''

Your last request to take away 'the'...my friend, you are certainly not wrong, it could be without...all it is...is dynamic writing, it gives more emphasis to the two species of birds, and a key point is the word before, '' with''

If I was using ''where'' instead of with,
''Hear your voices where lark and robin sing a summer's day''

That would be much better without ''the'' in front, gives another feel to the whole sentence...so you are not wrong my friend, either or. But, as you see, the lines are 15 syllable lines, all, so it would give one short and no better word, in a dynamic sense, than 'the' (determined form of the birds)

Excellent feedback, and know that I have taken your suggestions seriously, but again try to show you the angles I am coming from, which are some of my trademarks in writing.

Thank you so much dear friend. I will go directly and change creep to creeps...a mistake.
My best wishes...and thank you again.
RG



Your reply to my reply
reply by victortouche on 02-Sep-2017

Thank you so much for such an excellent response. Perhaps you and I can talk privately about "too." Ha ha. I understand much better why now. But don't think I have ever been taught the complexity of its use like this before. You really do write divinely and I'm so glad you took no offense. Doug

So, I do not understand why bring that up now as you yoursefsaid then you understood but was unfamiliar, which is fair enough. Now you say,you kept quiet.

Look, my answer to your rather provocative question.

You have my full profile, I hide nothing. You have my picture which is me, and you have some of my pat education and life on display. What you see is what you get.
I hide nothing.

Unfortunately for you, my friend, though my colour, yes, English is my first language. I speak 4 others which are both learned at university and picked up whilst living, so language is my forte...and one that I love.

I will never question your integrity by what you write, however simple or difficult I find them. I give constructive and always fair criticism.

If feel you should have, with cutesy, as I did. On hearing the narrative was not altogether understood, could have reacted differently, as you did in your first answer would have sufficed, without enquiring where I got lost.

I gave you courtesy, when you did not understand the significance of 'too' the way used...and even a reviewers star. You gave me none. Only seeked to belittle. I am afraid I am the wrong person at the end of such. Not fazed at all, and I will continue to review your work in honesty and dignity.

So let me tell you now the parts that threw me.

"All pain is gone
All wonder
He lays with all
who plundered"

The above would mean he is now lying dead together with perpetrators, not with the victims... It can mean nothing otherwise without "all who 'had been' plundered" which means robbed, incidentally, so not certain plundered is the write verb there...as it would seem as though to steal was there aim...which made me uncertain whether or not you were speaking about the Klan.

"He lays with all
who plundered"

could neither mean he is lying dead with either 'things' plundered because of 'who'
nor with the victims, because of "with all Who plundered"
The antagonists plundered so why would he be lying there with them.
Plundered; past participle.


"He could not
abide his sole existence
And I think
you know well why"

"sole"
Does this mean, he couldn't let himself live without his daughter, in that he would be the only one left alive?

But as he cannot hear screams behind him, smouldering down the road, means he is not with his daughter, so cannot know if she dies or not.

Then we come to the last stanza.

"Come hither
with your shotgun
and lay me 'neath
the cold, cold, soil"

Before this you are in third person narration,
then you suddenly change here to a first person narrative. Yet, could not come from the deceased, if he is dead, unless just a statement by itself as a quote in which you can separate in italics or some sort of sign.

The other way was to keep it in the third person narrative and continue with your narration;

"They came hither
with shotgun
so to lay him 'neath
the cold, cold, soil"


Come hither
with your shotgun
and lay me 'neath
the cold, cold, soil


Now,these are the reasons I had trouble following your narrative, nothing to do with the flow, as you accuse of.

Another thing I did not comment on, was the fact that you used 'hovel' and 'shack' with no door.
It would seem to stereotype the black man as if all lived in such a way, which I find far from the truth. Yet, that man and his daughter could have done.

You see, there are many points I could have taken up, but I was non critical as well as polite in saying:

"just difficulty holding on to that red thread of where and why"

That was all I said which orchestrated your negative.

Have a great day, my friend. I still find your work worthy.
My best wishes,
RGstar

reply by RGstar on 08-Nov-2017

Also, one more thing of significance I forgot to add.

Hovel is usually implied to a small squalid dwelling...as too shack. What would they have plundered.
I anm not sure the Klan's agenda was to plunder Hovels and Shacks...but you quoted the beauty of the South with gold courses etc, but may have looked diffrently then...so could have more description of then, not now.
Still.
These are my reasons of not being sure if it was in fact about the Klan. I didn't read your notes as understood where you were coming from, so just read as I would a poem.

reply by the author on 08-Nov-2017

I meant no insults what so ever. Nor was anything discoursed in anger or anything of the sort. I thought we were solid enough that I could explain my feelings. I could not follow exactly what you meant originally. And my second disourse was my first reply, not my second. Again, you see why I could become confused about language, because you are too intelligent for this type of mistake. Therfore I wondered if this was the cause. I will read ur entire reply, but am flabbergasted at U being insulted. Nothing of the sort was meant. Your discussions sometimes of the work do not correlate with ur intellect. I can't explain it. The image was and still is simply used appropriately and noone else runs into any interpretation or feels it is confusing, misused, or whatever. I do not need to run anyone down for raising my self esteem. However, if U feel the need for an intellectual showdown, I shall not falter my friend. Why don't we just remain friends as before?

Doug

reply by RGstar on 08-Nov-2017

That has never chainged, Doug. Intellect has many faces, and I am sure no one likes to eat huble pie. All I do is write and try to be as polite as helpful. I don't have anything to prove here. Let the writing do that. As to your image, very good image. Because I wan't sure if your piece was solely about the Klan, for the reasons I said I would be inclined to think so, such the power of an image. Your image was perfect for the write now I have established what the write is about. I admit, it could have been me not seeing your exact vision, but that is me, all over, always ready to look for what the eye may not see at first glance as to what is possible, when it comes to poetry, so the obvious may just elude me sometimes.

Anyway, no question where friends are concerned. Just another day, Doug...and we move on into a nicer day.
You have a good day, my friend. All of this is history...it has passed...never live in it.
Best wishes.

reply by the author on 08-Nov-2017

Thank you.

Comment from Ben Colder

Excellent

Well said. Read my book ( Silent Hands Of God) or Scars of Folly . Can be seen on my profile. We are on the same wave length. LOL.

 Comment Written 06-Nov-2017

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reply by the author on 02-Mar-2019

Thank you.