Poetry and Poison
Viewing comments for Chapter 8 "Poetry and Poison: Chapter 8"Poems started their marriage; poems ended it.
25 total reviews
Comment from Tessa Kay
Another riveting chapter that I somehow missed. I often wonder about post-natal depression. How can a mother resent her own children, but your chapter was an eye-opener. So sad how childhood experiences can form your future consciously or unconsciously. My mother always told me I was no good with kids, and I ended up never wanting any, and never had any.
What a journey you must've been on, discovering all these things. Parents can hide an awful lot from their children, but it sounds like you're really finding out who your mother was inside.
I've marked a few things, including in your mother's letter. But just toss if it's her original writing. I asked myself afterwards if I should've skipped editing that part, but I just went along as I read. Hope you don't mind.
-and spoke into the microphone. - I think you can cut this. It's kind of understood, and it would be tighter without it. See what you think.
-I flew to L.A., stepped into my mother's apartment - for better flow consider adding 'and'. It will complete the sentence.
-A mountain of brown flowers, once yellow, including those which had lain on our mother's casket, decayed on the dining room table - well described detail to set the scene. Gives the room the right atmosphere. :)
-...A low-watt bulb glowed in the ceiling. - A lot of short sentences in a row, giving it maybe a bit too much of a staccato feel. I would cut this one. Don't think you need it at most people would assume there was light of some sort. See what you think.
-there laid a little girl who had been hit - there lay
-I had tried vainly to open - tried to open in vain
-My earth quaked. A tsunami of grief engulfed me. - love the expressions. :)
-there was a period when Mom did not live with us." - Full stop instead of question mark.
I'll get to read the next chapter now. Don't even have to wait.
Thanks for sharing this emotional journey. :)
reply by the author on 04-Jan-2016
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Another riveting chapter that I somehow missed. I often wonder about post-natal depression. How can a mother resent her own children, but your chapter was an eye-opener. So sad how childhood experiences can form your future consciously or unconsciously. My mother always told me I was no good with kids, and I ended up never wanting any, and never had any.
What a journey you must've been on, discovering all these things. Parents can hide an awful lot from their children, but it sounds like you're really finding out who your mother was inside.
I've marked a few things, including in your mother's letter. But just toss if it's her original writing. I asked myself afterwards if I should've skipped editing that part, but I just went along as I read. Hope you don't mind.
-and spoke into the microphone. - I think you can cut this. It's kind of understood, and it would be tighter without it. See what you think.
-I flew to L.A., stepped into my mother's apartment - for better flow consider adding 'and'. It will complete the sentence.
-A mountain of brown flowers, once yellow, including those which had lain on our mother's casket, decayed on the dining room table - well described detail to set the scene. Gives the room the right atmosphere. :)
-...A low-watt bulb glowed in the ceiling. - A lot of short sentences in a row, giving it maybe a bit too much of a staccato feel. I would cut this one. Don't think you need it at most people would assume there was light of some sort. See what you think.
-there laid a little girl who had been hit - there lay
-I had tried vainly to open - tried to open in vain
-My earth quaked. A tsunami of grief engulfed me. - love the expressions. :)
-there was a period when Mom did not live with us." - Full stop instead of question mark.
I'll get to read the next chapter now. Don't even have to wait.
Thanks for sharing this emotional journey. :)
Comment Written 04-Jan-2016
reply by the author on 04-Jan-2016
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Thank you, Tessa Kay, for your generous, detailed review and edits. Yes, this is my mother's essay. She may have written it for a magazine submission, a writing class assignment, or just for her own record. We were quite shocked to find this. We never knew and she never told us. Later in life this same woman who dreaded small children worked as a teacher! She appeared to recover from what seemed to be post-natal depression.
Thank you again for your generous review.
Comment from I am Cat
I had planned a trip to Los (Angles) the next day to attend the memorial jewelry show that my father's widow, Kristen, staged at the house of his former pottery student. (did you mean, Angeles?)
there was still no way of keeping my two-year(-)old from knowing the agony my mind and body were going through...
Finally, . . . (w)henever I sensed an attack of depression coming, I would go in the bathroom and lock the door. While the water was running in the bathtub, I could cry unheard. My body trembled, felt caged, and desired to be free of these bounds. There was no trust in myself around the children during an attack. I might become violent and hurt them, for deep in my being was a strange aversion to small children.
(heartbreaking.....but so understandable from the POV of the mentally ill)
Alone in the living room, I would go from wall to wall--sometimes even hitting them. Just to have been able to cling to the walls and walk on the ceiling would have been a relief. When deeply depressed, I would scratch myself and grip my hands. There was a desire to cut my wrist and get out of this living hell.
(oh Andre', I've been here... known this... lived it)
My earth quaked. A tsunami of grief engulfed me. Each wave pulled me further into the ocean. First, I grieved over the loss of a brother or sister I never knew. Second, I grieved over my mother's statement "that having a baby was the worst thing that could happen to a woman." Did she want me? Did my birth stop her from going out the door and achieving her dreams? I felt survivor's guilt for being born. Third, I grieved over the depression she experienced. If she had succeeded in her "desire to cut (her) wrist and get out of this living hell," I would not have been born four years later.
(oh Andre', I will wait until I've read the entire chapter to comment on this part)
Ok, I've finished this now... Tell me what you want to know? I've committed myself to a psych ward, Andre'. In 2003, for cutting. The cutting was brought on by repressed memories, an antipsychotic called Abilify, Celiac's disease, stress... they called it Bipolar Disorder I, rapid cycling, ADD, Tourette's Syndrome, OCD, PTSD, Anorexia Nervosa... oh yeah... hand that girl yet another acronym to add behind her name.
You name it, I've dealt with it. To tell the truth, there are MANY reasons... who knows what they are? I watched an episode of House once where a woman once tried to drown her baby in a bathtub. You know WHY? They first called her psychotic... yeah, they did... called her bipolar... she had (before that) shown no signs of being a bad mother... but all of a sudden, she tried to kill that child... If you've watched House before, you know that he often went for those diseases that no one else could figure out... but they are VERY real...
Know WHY she tried to kill that little baby? Celiac's Disease. Yeah. An intolerance to gluten. Turns out that was my diagnosis also. I've never tried to kill my child, but Andre', your mother's words hit me so hard!
"Finally, . . . (w)henever I sensed an attack of depression coming, I would go in the bathroom and lock the door. While the water was running in the bathtub, I could cry unheard. My body trembled, felt caged, and desired to be free of these bounds. There was no trust in myself around the children during an attack. I might become violent and hurt them, for deep in my being was a strange aversion to small children.
Alone in the living room, I would go from wall to wall--sometimes even hitting them. Just to have been able to cling to the walls and walk on the ceiling would have been a relief. When deeply depressed, I would scratch myself and grip my hands. There was a desire to cut my wrist and get out of this living hell. "
but Andre'... listen to me. Your mother, if she were alive today, would tell you... that was a moment in time. A moment of her, alone with her paper and pen. A moment of utter despair, when she truly thought and believed that it was just HER flailing in the universe, she was screaming to the top of her lungs for something to pin it on... devoid of any answers, she reached for the first and most personal thing she could find... her womanhood.
"It MUST be her fault!
It HAD to be her fault.
Her children would be SO much better off without her"
I tell you these things because I've felt them... You know how I talk about my husband... like he's my world... he IS! But there was a time, (and believe me, it wasn't HIM) I BEGGED him to go. I BEGGED him because I wasn't good enough. I would never be clean enough, or well enough, or strong enough to be the woman he believed me to be. To be all that I needed to be for my children... But ask my kids... they don't think that! And HE never thought that!
It's an internal struggled, Andre...
Believe me, she never intended for you to find and read and BELIEVE that you were a mistake. Because, the truth is... It was her CHOICE to continue having sex, or 'making love' to your father... it was a CHOICE. She wasn't raped. And when you choose to have sex, you KNOW that you are choosing children. No matter the birth control... destiny and fate are destiny and fate, no matter HOW you slice it.
YOU were meant to be.
And she, if she was here to tell you, would tell you the same thing. YOU have a purpose, if you don't know that... then it's time to do some deep reflecting...
YOU ARE REAL. The love she had/has is real... it comes from beyond the constraints of earthly bodies and time... she loved you, and you know it, or you wouldn't still be searching this out. THis wouldn't matter to you so much.
YOU are a result of love.
Make no mistake about it. Whether or not something misfired in her emotional/mental/physical status at on time or another... SO? It happens to ALL of us for one reason or another... ANY of us. NO ONE IS IMMUNE to depression.
Believe it.
A virtual six... and this, this telling... well, I know that you're aware how much I adore this story. Keep moving forward Andre' and know within you, that your mother is right beside you.
Love and laughter to you
Cat
(if you need anything or want to ask more questions... you know where to find me) ;)
reply by the author on 02-Jan-2016
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I had planned a trip to Los (Angles) the next day to attend the memorial jewelry show that my father's widow, Kristen, staged at the house of his former pottery student. (did you mean, Angeles?)
there was still no way of keeping my two-year(-)old from knowing the agony my mind and body were going through...
Finally, . . . (w)henever I sensed an attack of depression coming, I would go in the bathroom and lock the door. While the water was running in the bathtub, I could cry unheard. My body trembled, felt caged, and desired to be free of these bounds. There was no trust in myself around the children during an attack. I might become violent and hurt them, for deep in my being was a strange aversion to small children.
(heartbreaking.....but so understandable from the POV of the mentally ill)
Alone in the living room, I would go from wall to wall--sometimes even hitting them. Just to have been able to cling to the walls and walk on the ceiling would have been a relief. When deeply depressed, I would scratch myself and grip my hands. There was a desire to cut my wrist and get out of this living hell.
(oh Andre', I've been here... known this... lived it)
My earth quaked. A tsunami of grief engulfed me. Each wave pulled me further into the ocean. First, I grieved over the loss of a brother or sister I never knew. Second, I grieved over my mother's statement "that having a baby was the worst thing that could happen to a woman." Did she want me? Did my birth stop her from going out the door and achieving her dreams? I felt survivor's guilt for being born. Third, I grieved over the depression she experienced. If she had succeeded in her "desire to cut (her) wrist and get out of this living hell," I would not have been born four years later.
(oh Andre', I will wait until I've read the entire chapter to comment on this part)
Ok, I've finished this now... Tell me what you want to know? I've committed myself to a psych ward, Andre'. In 2003, for cutting. The cutting was brought on by repressed memories, an antipsychotic called Abilify, Celiac's disease, stress... they called it Bipolar Disorder I, rapid cycling, ADD, Tourette's Syndrome, OCD, PTSD, Anorexia Nervosa... oh yeah... hand that girl yet another acronym to add behind her name.
You name it, I've dealt with it. To tell the truth, there are MANY reasons... who knows what they are? I watched an episode of House once where a woman once tried to drown her baby in a bathtub. You know WHY? They first called her psychotic... yeah, they did... called her bipolar... she had (before that) shown no signs of being a bad mother... but all of a sudden, she tried to kill that child... If you've watched House before, you know that he often went for those diseases that no one else could figure out... but they are VERY real...
Know WHY she tried to kill that little baby? Celiac's Disease. Yeah. An intolerance to gluten. Turns out that was my diagnosis also. I've never tried to kill my child, but Andre', your mother's words hit me so hard!
"Finally, . . . (w)henever I sensed an attack of depression coming, I would go in the bathroom and lock the door. While the water was running in the bathtub, I could cry unheard. My body trembled, felt caged, and desired to be free of these bounds. There was no trust in myself around the children during an attack. I might become violent and hurt them, for deep in my being was a strange aversion to small children.
Alone in the living room, I would go from wall to wall--sometimes even hitting them. Just to have been able to cling to the walls and walk on the ceiling would have been a relief. When deeply depressed, I would scratch myself and grip my hands. There was a desire to cut my wrist and get out of this living hell. "
but Andre'... listen to me. Your mother, if she were alive today, would tell you... that was a moment in time. A moment of her, alone with her paper and pen. A moment of utter despair, when she truly thought and believed that it was just HER flailing in the universe, she was screaming to the top of her lungs for something to pin it on... devoid of any answers, she reached for the first and most personal thing she could find... her womanhood.
"It MUST be her fault!
It HAD to be her fault.
Her children would be SO much better off without her"
I tell you these things because I've felt them... You know how I talk about my husband... like he's my world... he IS! But there was a time, (and believe me, it wasn't HIM) I BEGGED him to go. I BEGGED him because I wasn't good enough. I would never be clean enough, or well enough, or strong enough to be the woman he believed me to be. To be all that I needed to be for my children... But ask my kids... they don't think that! And HE never thought that!
It's an internal struggled, Andre...
Believe me, she never intended for you to find and read and BELIEVE that you were a mistake. Because, the truth is... It was her CHOICE to continue having sex, or 'making love' to your father... it was a CHOICE. She wasn't raped. And when you choose to have sex, you KNOW that you are choosing children. No matter the birth control... destiny and fate are destiny and fate, no matter HOW you slice it.
YOU were meant to be.
And she, if she was here to tell you, would tell you the same thing. YOU have a purpose, if you don't know that... then it's time to do some deep reflecting...
YOU ARE REAL. The love she had/has is real... it comes from beyond the constraints of earthly bodies and time... she loved you, and you know it, or you wouldn't still be searching this out. THis wouldn't matter to you so much.
YOU are a result of love.
Make no mistake about it. Whether or not something misfired in her emotional/mental/physical status at on time or another... SO? It happens to ALL of us for one reason or another... ANY of us. NO ONE IS IMMUNE to depression.
Believe it.
A virtual six... and this, this telling... well, I know that you're aware how much I adore this story. Keep moving forward Andre' and know within you, that your mother is right beside you.
Love and laughter to you
Cat
(if you need anything or want to ask more questions... you know where to find me) ;)
Comment Written 01-Jan-2016
reply by the author on 02-Jan-2016
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Thank you, Cat, for your corrections, words of comfort, and healing. Also, thank you for sharing your experience with mental illness. Your sharing made me know that my mother was not alone in feeling these thoughts, although to her she was alone, desperately alone. This was the darkest moment of her life and she wrote about it, although I do not know how she intended it to me shared, whether or not it was a submission to a journal or an essay in a writing class. She did not intend her children to read this, but she needed to write it and try to make some sense of what was happening to her.
She ended her essay with a happy ending as she is released from the psychiatric ward and reunites with her children. But the documents my brother and I uncovered show that she dealt with severe depression throughout her life. Her writing got her through these tough patches.
Were her experiences typical of that woman of that era or of today? The feeling I get is that these were universal experiences. What stuns me is that she wrote about it in 1959 when women, I assume, were discouraged from talking about it. Your comments about women who want to kill their own children was insightful. And my mother later worked as a grammar school teacher for thirty years!
Yes, I know she loved and loves me. It is just hard for me to read these documents and wonder. I have another chapter coming up on this theme of the unwanted, miscarried child in which both my father and mother team up to respond creatively.
I am down in LA right now for a brief visit. My brother and I do not have time to sort through more of her papers. We contend ourselves with scanning family photos to assemble our family tree on Ancestry.com. She would be and is proud of us for doing this. It would mean a lot to her that we focus on the good.
Thank you again for sharing your words of comfort and understanding.
Comment from Neonewman
Wow! I really enjoy the artwork in this wooden carving! Fertility doll? Great dialogue as par for coarse with your talent and super emotional moment!
Great chapter, on to the next one.
God bless!
Steve
reply by the author on 30-Dec-2015
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Wow! I really enjoy the artwork in this wooden carving! Fertility doll? Great dialogue as par for coarse with your talent and super emotional moment!
Great chapter, on to the next one.
God bless!
Steve
Comment Written 30-Dec-2015
reply by the author on 30-Dec-2015
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Yes, Steve, that's my father's carving. I am glad I have and incorporated it in this chapter. I am grateful that you enjoyed my "talent and super emotional moment." Thank you for the review.
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Certainly my pleasure!
Comment from Pearl Edwards
I love the wooden sculptures and how special to know that they are your father's carvings. A great read, very poignant. Especially emotional Jessie's line -
a different Mommy will be coming home to four little waiting arms.
I guess it is a line that holds hope.
reply by the author on 30-Dec-2015
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I love the wooden sculptures and how special to know that they are your father's carvings. A great read, very poignant. Especially emotional Jessie's line -
a different Mommy will be coming home to four little waiting arms.
I guess it is a line that holds hope.
Comment Written 30-Dec-2015
reply by the author on 30-Dec-2015
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Thank you, Pearl for your generous, six star review.
Comment from teols2016
Even though I seem to be reading this backwards, another fine installment. I especially like the connection between past and present and the line regarding the Wizard is an important element of that. I'll be on the lookout for more.
reply by the author on 29-Dec-2015
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Even though I seem to be reading this backwards, another fine installment. I especially like the connection between past and present and the line regarding the Wizard is an important element of that. I'll be on the lookout for more.
Comment Written 29-Dec-2015
reply by the author on 29-Dec-2015
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Yes, pscholz4, I love that line about the Wizard of Oz, too. One of the effects of this chapter was to create an analysis of Jessie's bout with mental illness. When she is attracted to the sculpture Woman in Pain in the next chapter, the reader knows why. Fred comes with his own baggage, too, with his anxiety towards woman. Given their backgrounds, I am surprised but not surprised that my parents connected. Thank you for your review.
Comment from Eigle Rull
What an intense chapter this is. It was very interesting, the many phases the mom went through. The dialog and the storyline are very good. I enjoyed reading it. Best wishes to you, my friend.
Always with respect,
reply by the author on 29-Dec-2015
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What an intense chapter this is. It was very interesting, the many phases the mom went through. The dialog and the storyline are very good. I enjoyed reading it. Best wishes to you, my friend.
Always with respect,
Comment Written 29-Dec-2015
reply by the author on 29-Dec-2015
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Thank you, Eigle Rull, for your generous review of an intense chapter. I am glad you found it to be very interesting.
Comment from Bluebird77
The author did an excellent job on writing this story about his mom and her mental illness and the way in which he remember her dealing with it. Being a child and having to experience this type of sickness is really hard and hurts a child. Because the author really didn't understand why his mom was crying. All he could think of is maybe someone had hurt her. Because of her nervous breakdown from the marriage took it's toll on her and her lifestyle. The author
allows the reader to share the agony and pain his mother endured. Knowing she was left alone to live in such a place with two small children, all kinds of sick people and drugs made her depressed and bewildered. She didn't know what do do. She was crying out for help. She did go to the hospital, I really felt sorry for
some of the things the author had to endure. Thanks for sharing your story and the sculptor has me wondering also, the fat lady or the pregnant woman? It is something to think about.
reply by the author on 28-Dec-2015
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The author did an excellent job on writing this story about his mom and her mental illness and the way in which he remember her dealing with it. Being a child and having to experience this type of sickness is really hard and hurts a child. Because the author really didn't understand why his mom was crying. All he could think of is maybe someone had hurt her. Because of her nervous breakdown from the marriage took it's toll on her and her lifestyle. The author
allows the reader to share the agony and pain his mother endured. Knowing she was left alone to live in such a place with two small children, all kinds of sick people and drugs made her depressed and bewildered. She didn't know what do do. She was crying out for help. She did go to the hospital, I really felt sorry for
some of the things the author had to endure. Thanks for sharing your story and the sculptor has me wondering also, the fat lady or the pregnant woman? It is something to think about.
Comment Written 28-Dec-2015
reply by the author on 28-Dec-2015
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Thank you, Bluebird77, for your generous, thoughtful review. Yes, I believe that the divorce pushed my mother over the edge. I am glad she sought help. Otherwise, I would not be here today. Thank you for your review.
Comment from Treischel
A very interesting set of revelations her about your mother. You presented it very well with all the twists and turns and concerns.it is also interesting that you would write about mental illness at the same time that I wrote about it concerning my wife. I wrote a Prelude to Electro Shock, and Electro Shock Therapy. My payee that is the "operation" your mother was worried about.
reply by the author on 28-Dec-2015
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A very interesting set of revelations her about your mother. You presented it very well with all the twists and turns and concerns.it is also interesting that you would write about mental illness at the same time that I wrote about it concerning my wife. I wrote a Prelude to Electro Shock, and Electro Shock Therapy. My payee that is the "operation" your mother was worried about.
Comment Written 28-Dec-2015
reply by the author on 28-Dec-2015
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Yes, Treischel, we are most shocked about these revelations about our mother. We do not know what else is in store when we sort through her papers. We seem to be on the same wave length with our writing. Thank you for reviewing.
Comment from chcbeck
This is such an interesting read. You really feel the need to find out about your past. The letter is really important to show mental illness. Mental illness is such a mis understood area, and can have such a profound impact on not only the person but people around them. A great piece.
reply by the author on 28-Dec-2015
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This is such an interesting read. You really feel the need to find out about your past. The letter is really important to show mental illness. Mental illness is such a mis understood area, and can have such a profound impact on not only the person but people around them. A great piece.
Comment Written 28-Dec-2015
reply by the author on 28-Dec-2015
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Thank you, chcbeck, for your review. I also thank my mother that she had the courage to endure and write about it. As painful as her essay is to her children, we are glad we found it because we can understand our mother more deeply. Thanks for your review.
Comment from fafa
It always does to itself like a big revealingwriting of a situation where the mothersuffers a serious mental process,nevertheless there is big admirationtowards this personage, there appearfondness and love, greetings
reply by the author on 28-Dec-2015
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It always does to itself like a big revealingwriting of a situation where the mothersuffers a serious mental process,nevertheless there is big admirationtowards this personage, there appearfondness and love, greetings
Comment Written 28-Dec-2015
reply by the author on 28-Dec-2015
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Thank you, fafa, for your kind, generous review about this revealing chapter.
