Smiley John, Prop
Hard times on the Oregon Trail34 total reviews
Comment from BethShelby
Your story was fun to read. As usual, I'm amazed at your way with words, proper and improper. This sounds like part of a much longer saga. My only problem is I'm not really in love with any of your colorful characters. I do like to have someone in a story to care about. I missed getting to go to Cousin's this week.
reply by the author on 04-Dec-2010
  |
Your story was fun to read. As usual, I'm amazed at your way with words, proper and improper. This sounds like part of a much longer saga. My only problem is I'm not really in love with any of your colorful characters. I do like to have someone in a story to care about. I missed getting to go to Cousin's this week.
Comment Written 04-Dec-2010
reply by the author on 04-Dec-2010
-
Beth you really missed Cousin's? That's it, I'm buying you a flannel shirt. I'm sorry you didn't fall in love with Jemal Farley, I thought he might be your type. Still, I'm glad you enjoyed the story. Cousin's will be open next Friday, so polish your cowboy boots. Thanks again, Lee
Comment from sibhus
Just one thought, I'm not sure if your given your characters social class and education would have been aware of Elba. Nit-pick, sorry. This was a really well crafted story filled with a lot of peroid details that make for a great story. It definately has a feel of the old west and a realism that is very entertaining. Great story Lee.
reply by the author on 04-Dec-2010
|
Just one thought, I'm not sure if your given your characters social class and education would have been aware of Elba. Nit-pick, sorry. This was a really well crafted story filled with a lot of peroid details that make for a great story. It definately has a feel of the old west and a realism that is very entertaining. Great story Lee.
Comment Written 04-Dec-2010
reply by the author on 04-Dec-2010
-
Thank you sibhus. I did think about whether the Elba reference was plausible. Eventually I decided to leave it in figuring that Napoleon was a rock star of his age, and it might not be inconceivable that a man as resourceful as Jemal Farley might know the story. Whether I'm right about that or not, you made a good catch and I appreciate that you read so carefully.
Thank you again for reading my rather long short story. Peace, Lee
Comment from ablelaz
Hi Humpwhistle --- I'm not going to do a complete critique of this story, but I will give you my opinion on the first section.
There are three issues I would like to discuss first. You seem intent on writing this just the way you imagine these people would have talked. Well there's a price to be paid for that sort of thing. People, who start to read something and find, they, at the very best, have to put a lot of thought and concentration into trying to understand it, are apt to stop reading.
To add insult to injury you paste together a bunch of unrelated words to form an almost non-seneschal sentence.
I got the impression you were writing a western and because of my love for that genre, I was roped into this piece. I don't know what you intended this to sound like, but it come a lot closer to Hill-Billy then western. I thought as I started to read, that this was right out of the Ozark Mountains.
Now last, but not least is the issue of credibility. In your first paragraph you state. Quote "'Course it was the first tradin' post we'd seen in these last two months of westward wanderin', so our first judgment mighta been a little belly-growl rosy."
I now take you to your fourth paragraph. Quote "But every other tradin' post we'd come acrost during our travels had some sort of fortification to provide succor from heathen attacks and such treachery." There seems to be a bit of a contradiction there.
I was going to do a paragraph by paragraph critique of the first part of this. On closer inspection I think, this wouldn't be bad at all, if written in language, the average reader could understand.
When we set out to emulate the way people talk, we only at best, get it about ten percent right.
You came up with what is probably a nice little western adventure and write it in a way that is almost unreadable.
Well that's the way this old puppy sees it.
Talk to you soon---ablelaz.
This rating does not count towards story rating or author rank.
The highest and the lowest rating are not included in calculations.
reply by the author on 04-Dec-2010
 |
Hi Humpwhistle --- I'm not going to do a complete critique of this story, but I will give you my opinion on the first section.
There are three issues I would like to discuss first. You seem intent on writing this just the way you imagine these people would have talked. Well there's a price to be paid for that sort of thing. People, who start to read something and find, they, at the very best, have to put a lot of thought and concentration into trying to understand it, are apt to stop reading.
To add insult to injury you paste together a bunch of unrelated words to form an almost non-seneschal sentence.
I got the impression you were writing a western and because of my love for that genre, I was roped into this piece. I don't know what you intended this to sound like, but it come a lot closer to Hill-Billy then western. I thought as I started to read, that this was right out of the Ozark Mountains.
Now last, but not least is the issue of credibility. In your first paragraph you state. Quote "'Course it was the first tradin' post we'd seen in these last two months of westward wanderin', so our first judgment mighta been a little belly-growl rosy."
I now take you to your fourth paragraph. Quote "But every other tradin' post we'd come acrost during our travels had some sort of fortification to provide succor from heathen attacks and such treachery." There seems to be a bit of a contradiction there.
I was going to do a paragraph by paragraph critique of the first part of this. On closer inspection I think, this wouldn't be bad at all, if written in language, the average reader could understand.
When we set out to emulate the way people talk, we only at best, get it about ten percent right.
You came up with what is probably a nice little western adventure and write it in a way that is almost unreadable.
Well that's the way this old puppy sees it.
Talk to you soon---ablelaz.
This rating does not count towards story rating or author rank.
The highest and the lowest rating are not included in calculations.
Comment Written 04-Dec-2010
reply by the author on 04-Dec-2010
-
I appreciate your comments, but I don't beleive they are all valid. Peace, Lee
-
Hi humpwhistle --- You miss the point of my comments completely, and what in the world dose [kinda sorta] mean. I read this story three times from front to back and only after three reads did it start to make sense. There isnâ??t anything wrong with the story, but the presentation is a basket case. You need to decide if you want help with your writing, or perhaps just want to hear some meaning less praise.
I know where the western migrants came form, obviously the east, but the percentage of the multitude making their way west, that were from the Ozarks would be miniscule.
When we write about something that is rare or unusual it is wise to make that point clear to the reader. Most wagon trains were huge affairs in evolving people from all areas of the continent and involving all nationalities that made up the mix that settled this country. The larger the better, a huge train of thirty wagons or more offered a lot more safety to it members, than a single family or clan ever could generate.
I `m not say your concept couldnâ??t happen, but people who went west from the Ozarks would be starting from a jump off point that is at least two hundred miles west of the traditional jump off point.
Trading posts were not a big deal in the settling of the west, they were setup in places were wild life was rather plentiful and furs were the motivation, beads for beaver, if you know what I mean.
The typical restocking area for wagon trains were the communities set up to accommodate that need. Free standing trading posts were rare and unreliable.
When someone decided to cross the nation, they planed to do it in the summer mouths. They left the jump off point in late April, or early may just as the grass was getting a good start. This afforded them five month, give or take, to complete their journey. If they were late arriving at the mountains they must cross to get to California, they had no option but to try and winter it out, many didnâ??t make it.
I think your story has potential, but the presentation you have opted for just wonâ??t fly.
Talk to you soon---ablelaz.
-
If I didn't get your point, perhaps you didn't make one.
Okay, if they didn't come from the Ozarks (your assumption, by the way, not my assertion), they came from the Appalachains---that would account for their manner of speech. As for the size of their train, I mentioned significant losses along the way---losses that precipitated their descent into lawlessness.
Clearly you find the story untenable---still you have not give me a single reason, or example that I cannot refute---at least to my satisfaction. For this you will label me defensive. Fine. So tell me what I cannot defend.
As for trading posts not playing a large role in the re-supply of trains I mentioned that they hadn't seen one in two months and didn't expect to find this one either.
As for the make-up of the train the names I have used include Farley, Hultgren, Nimitz, and Dutch, and Thibideau---not international enough for you?
By having some legitimate issues with your issues I'm relegated to being a praise hound?
Can I not disagree with your assessment---especially if I offer rationale for mine?
I don't expect we will agree anytime soon, but I do appreciate the time and effort you have expended on my behalf.
I know my story isn't perfect, but basket case is a little harsh. I will gladly carry on this discussion if you chose.
Peace, Lee
-
Hi Peace Lee --- Your first point is a possibility, but I certainly made a point in my mind. It seems I didnâ??t transfer it yours, but perhaps your mind is close.
In your last reply you certainly did say they came from the Ozarks. This is why credibility is so important. We as fiction writers donâ??t have to be all that accurate, but when we say something, we canâ??t then contradict it later on, or even seem to.
The difference between the natives of the Ozark Mountains and those of the Appalachians are worlds apart. The Appalachians are the second biggest mountain range in America and stretches from the southeast corner of Canada the state of Alabama. There are even Canadians who consider themselves Appalachians.
The culture along this range is very diverse and I wonâ??t deny that there are pockets were the hillbilly talk come through, but none that come close to the Ozarkians.
This not a question of my opinion verses yours. It goes much deeper than that. It becomes a matter of can you go to the depths you have gone to with me multiplied by everyone who reads your story.
This story comes apart in the way itâ??s told. You in my humble opinion donâ??t flesh out your character enough leaving subtleties for your readers to guess at.
If you are sincere about improving this story I will help you to the best of my ability, if on the other hand you just want to debate my critique Iâ??m not all that interested.
Talk to you soon --- ablelaz.
-
I appreciate your interest in my story, and your desire to help me improve it. But I'm afraid we will never agree. I don't think my story is perfect, but nor can I find validity in your specific critiques. You don't like my story. And yes I do leave questions so my readers can fill in the blanks according to their understanding.
Neither one of us has time for this futile back and forth. I am sorry that you will think me intractable. I can only respond according to my beliefs.
When was the last time you re-read Frontier Justus (sic)?
Peace, Lee
Comment from misscookie
I like artwork it truly set the mood for your story;
Yes your story was long but, i found it very interesting and it held my attention to the end.
this is a good write.
reply by the author on 04-Dec-2010
|
I like artwork it truly set the mood for your story;
Yes your story was long but, i found it very interesting and it held my attention to the end.
this is a good write.
Comment Written 04-Dec-2010
reply by the author on 04-Dec-2010
-
Thank you. I really appreciate you hanging in there. Peace, Lee
-
Your welcome, take care.
Comment from c_lucas
I find no faults with your Trifecta quel. This is very well written with a smooth flow of words, making for an easy read. Very good job.
reply by the author on 03-Dec-2010
 |
I find no faults with your Trifecta quel. This is very well written with a smooth flow of words, making for an easy read. Very good job.
Comment Written 03-Dec-2010
reply by the author on 03-Dec-2010
-
Charlie, you are the god of the western history around here and I have been eagerly waiting for you to weigh in, but I never expected a six. Forgive me, but I don't know what Trifecta quel means. Thank you, Charlie, your vote of confidence means a lot to me. Peace, Lee
-
You're welcome, Lee. Tri = three, fecta=perfect. pre-pre-prequel. Charlie
Comment from RobertaLee
This is a very well researched story with great character development and genuine, consistent dialect. You have done so very well. Is this a beginning to a longer historical novel or a series of short stories? The Oregon Trail, as you most likely know, harbored more stories like this than will ever be told. There is simply nothing to comment upon, except to say thanks so much for a very enjoyable read. Very professionally done. Incidentally, I really liked the device you used of interrupting your narrative with the reminisce that provided justification/explaination for the rest of the action in the story. Blessings, Roberta
reply by the author on 03-Dec-2010
|
This is a very well researched story with great character development and genuine, consistent dialect. You have done so very well. Is this a beginning to a longer historical novel or a series of short stories? The Oregon Trail, as you most likely know, harbored more stories like this than will ever be told. There is simply nothing to comment upon, except to say thanks so much for a very enjoyable read. Very professionally done. Incidentally, I really liked the device you used of interrupting your narrative with the reminisce that provided justification/explaination for the rest of the action in the story. Blessings, Roberta
Comment Written 03-Dec-2010
reply by the author on 03-Dec-2010
-
Roberta, I am so glad that we found one another. I thank you so much for the galaxy of stars, but more for you generous and insightful comments. The Oregon Trail, as you suggest, is a treasure trove of stories. This one is a probe, though I love my characters, to see if there is interest in more. Thank you again for your careful assessment. Peace, Lee
Comment from koneart
Have you ever watch Red/Green? I love that show and this reminds me of it. All the silliness and back-ass-ness of it all. I didn't see anything super important to check on, or maybe it's because I was enjoying the read so much. I love the lingo. Very well done.
reply by the author on 03-Dec-2010
|
Have you ever watch Red/Green? I love that show and this reminds me of it. All the silliness and back-ass-ness of it all. I didn't see anything super important to check on, or maybe it's because I was enjoying the read so much. I love the lingo. Very well done.
Comment Written 03-Dec-2010
reply by the author on 03-Dec-2010
-
Don't know Red/Green, but I appreciate you continued support and encouragement. Truth? I can't resist writing dialect. Stay cool, Kone, Lee
Comment from annettebda
Well dang me Humpwhistle I was fit to be hog tied barrel wise when I realised we was along way previous to Cousins this AM, however this story was a good one so I'll just stop my complaining and give you those five stars
Annette
reply by the author on 03-Dec-2010
|
Well dang me Humpwhistle I was fit to be hog tied barrel wise when I realised we was along way previous to Cousins this AM, however this story was a good one so I'll just stop my complaining and give you those five stars
Annette
Comment Written 03-Dec-2010
reply by the author on 03-Dec-2010
-
Why, thank ya kindly, Miss Annette. Actually, this story is a prequel---Jemal Farley is Marty's-Ex's father's cousin's, nephew's brother's in-law's beagle's...well you get it, I hope you enjoyed deviation from the theme. Cousin's will reopen next Friday with the opening chapter of a HOLIDAY SPECIAL!!! Shhhhh,
no one else knows. Alias (that means Lee)
-
incest is best..might explain a lot about those reglars at Cousins!
-
That's why I call them Irregulars. All well in C.R., dear? Lee
-
It is still raining, everyone is saying this has been the worst rainy season in living memory..but today was glorious the skies were clear and blue and there was a lovely breeze, and now that I have completed my ' journey' poetically speaking I actually can enjoy it with a clear conscience.
How is Winter treating you, and how is your Mother, is she home from the hospital yet
Annette
Comment from Realist101
Dear Lee, when are you going to write a novel that will sell off the shelves in any bookstore???? THIS is just awesome writing. YOU have it in you to be a best selling author. I know, I am no agent, etc...etc...but I know what reads well. I don't mean to sound, what's the word, I don't know. All you have to do is put this together with proper editing and find an agent. I wish I had three sixes. I will save this one too. YOur biggest fan, Suse
Read this again, and I could hear Gus this time! Such a good story, ... Book! Lee, Book! ") S.
reply by the author on 03-Dec-2010
|
Dear Lee, when are you going to write a novel that will sell off the shelves in any bookstore???? THIS is just awesome writing. YOU have it in you to be a best selling author. I know, I am no agent, etc...etc...but I know what reads well. I don't mean to sound, what's the word, I don't know. All you have to do is put this together with proper editing and find an agent. I wish I had three sixes. I will save this one too. YOur biggest fan, Suse
Read this again, and I could hear Gus this time! Such a good story, ... Book! Lee, Book! ") S.
Comment Written 03-Dec-2010
reply by the author on 03-Dec-2010
-
Suse (is that what you prefer?), thank you so much. I'm a writer, I don't know how to find an agent. I don't know how to do this business.
So you liked the story?
Peace, Lee
-
Suse is okay, g, called me that. He was so kind. Lee, did I forget to send the info about agents? I can't remember, I know I saw some that were accepting, And I don't know how to either, to do electronic we have to "copy and paste"...I don't even know how to do that! Google about query letters Lee, that's the first step. I will resend or send some addresses of agents. I really want to see you try! I love ALL your work. There is something special about it. Honest. Suse...
-
Thank you Susan. Your faith in me means a lot. Lee
Comment from IndianaIrish
It's great to read this wonderdul story again! I don't know what rating I gave it first time, but I can only give it five stars now.
People in these parts are spoilt with their reading. Your story is a very acceptable length and it doesn't matter the number of words...if it's a good story, the reader gets into the story and reads along without ever noticing the length.
I love a good western with characters that make me feel like I was there with them. You've written a great story with humor and action and it made me want to more about these people ... what they did in Independence and why they wanted to wagon train it west. I wanna read about all their adventures and how they lost so many people. I wanna know where they end up and what happens to each of them. It's a great story, Lee...I want to keep reading. You have a wonderful way (or should I say style?) that keeps the reader engaged...no matter what you write. Do you believe you're one of the best writers here?? You are, ya know.
Indy :>)
reply by the author on 03-Dec-2010
|
It's great to read this wonderdul story again! I don't know what rating I gave it first time, but I can only give it five stars now.
People in these parts are spoilt with their reading. Your story is a very acceptable length and it doesn't matter the number of words...if it's a good story, the reader gets into the story and reads along without ever noticing the length.
I love a good western with characters that make me feel like I was there with them. You've written a great story with humor and action and it made me want to more about these people ... what they did in Independence and why they wanted to wagon train it west. I wanna read about all their adventures and how they lost so many people. I wanna know where they end up and what happens to each of them. It's a great story, Lee...I want to keep reading. You have a wonderful way (or should I say style?) that keeps the reader engaged...no matter what you write. Do you believe you're one of the best writers here?? You are, ya know.
Indy :>)
Comment Written 03-Dec-2010
reply by the author on 03-Dec-2010
-
Oh, thank you Indy, that is so kind of you to say. I love these characters, but I never wanted to split them up into chapters. I have allowed FS to change my writing parameters---and not all for the bad. But when I decided to post this story I actually considered spending real money to put it on the first page because I was afraid people (other than my friends) wouldn't bother reading it otherwise.
This is the story length where I like to play. Some reviewers complain that I only write vignettes---well sure, because that's what people will read. I think this is called being between the rock and the shit place.
Okay, rant over. Thanks Indy, I knew I could count on you. Peace, Lee
