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I read that in a New Zealand accent, which made me misty-eyed about my good friend who has returned to her homeland. I am reminded that one day, we really should visit. As to the subject, I vowed I was going to stay out of the Trump infested waters. Even my own post about my own country got Trumped. But I am going to say this. I don't agree with the assertion that call in Trump weird Tis like salting a slug. It's actually more like fuelling the fire of his martyrdom. He is making not inconsiderable mileage out of both the hatred and ridicule of his Presidency and he and his following have merely doubled down. Far from shrinking him, it all just seems to make him bigger. He's been a figure of fun and outrage since he first entered the political fray. He's come back for more. Not exactly shrivelling up, is he? Psychologically speaking, he thrives on all this. The way to have really ground him into the dust would have been to treat him as an inconsequential blip on the American map. Yes, yes, I know he isn't, but he could have been, couldn't he? He could have been a not-very-funny international joke, America's problem child. He could have and should have been roundly ignored out of international politics, instead of made so much of (excuse the shocking grammar). He is all the things you have listed in another thread and more, yet he is still potentially a vote winner. Is it despite the world's laughter that turned to real concern when we realised he was serious and a large enough chunk of the American population thought enough of him to vote him in? Or is it because of it? Nobody's mentioned how the man was played like a fiddle by the tin pot dictator of North Korea. Trump actually met with the man, a historic first. Came home and told America and the world, North Korea would be disarming their nuclear weapons. In fact, Trump boasted, 'he's probably doing it right now'. He wasn't, NK still haven't and they never had any intention of doing so unless Trump met certain conditions. This part of the conversation was ignored by Trump, who only heard, it seems, 'we will disarm'. That level of political ineptitude is being buried under the swirl of the odious man himself. Have you noticed that of all the things you listed, it is the accusation that he is a rapist that you are most challenged on? Of course, I would be the last person to say that doesn't matter, but it's something his supporters can latch on to, deny, make a big thing about how false it all was, how the judge hated Trump, etc. It's not going to bury him because people don't believe it, and he and his gang are using it to fuel the idea that he is a victim of a campaign of hatred. And nobody is paying attention to North Korea quietly continuing to build their arsenal because Trump made a big show of resolving a problem he never actually resolved, buried the lack of resolution and shut up about it in the (accurate, as it turned out) hope people would forget about it. It's not what 'everyone knows', Steve. It's not what's widely publicised and talked about. It's what we aren't hearing. It's not the noise, it's the silence. The noise suits Trump very well. The noise brings out the counter-noise of his loyal gang. The things he does at home, just in relation to domestic politics are winning him votes. If that's what America wants, for their nation, they should have it. But his involvement in world affairs should and could be minimised. Your shouting into the void on this forum has brought out the defenders, the closet Trumpeters, the out and proud Trumpeters, the 'I don't like him, butters'. On a much bigger stage, the same arguments are having the same effect. Meanwhile, the man himself is both hiding behind and using all the noise to rally his defenders, who would swear white was black for their beloved leader. Ultimately, Lance is not wrong in that we don't have a vote. He is wrong if he thinks it is neither important nor relevant to the wider world who America chooses as their President, but I do think the way to tackle that is to tackle the place one nation holds in the world. Because we don't have a vote. And it doesn't matter how much we point out the folly of electing Trump, in the end, it's up to those who have a vote. All the rest of the world can do is mitigate the damage on an international level. All the laughing, all the criticising, all the statement of facts, even the lawsuits, haven't squashed this insect. Not on this forum or anywhere else. If it had, he wouldn't even be a credible candidate. There's no point continuing to tell everybody what they already know and choose to disbelieve/ignore/treat as a conspiracy to bring down a Messiah. All that happens is an endless circular argument that reinforces the notion that Trump is the most important man on the planet. THAT is the problem. Not who is president of one country, but the importance placed on that position at a world level. In discussions with Lance, I have explained many times why we are all so interested in America. If we spent more time working on dismantling the hold one nation has over the world than trying to persuade the citizens of that nation to vote differently, we might actually avert not only this disaster, but disasters to come.