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Bananafish308

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RE: Question for Trump Supporters
Wow, Lancelot, great counterpunch. You really got me with that one, hahahaha! That's real proof that my facts are wrong.

WHY DID SHE LOSE???

I'LL GIVE YOU A COUPLE OF REASONS, BUT THERE ARE CERTAINLY MORE:
-BECAUSE VOTERS ARE NOTORIOUS FOR BEING UNINFORMED AND BELIEVING THE LIES THAT THEY WANT TO BELIEVE AND THAT VALIDATE THEIR OWN BIASES.
-BECAUSE TRUMP IS A HABITUAL LIAR AND FOLLOWS THE AGE OLD STRATEGY OF INCESSANTLY REPEATING HIS LIES UNTIL PEOPLE START BELIEVING THEM.
-BECAUSE TRUMP SUPPORTERS LIVE IN THE FOX NEWS ECHO CHAMBER OF LIES, SO THEY AREN'T EXPOSED TO THE TYPE OF FACTS LIKE I PROVIDED - FACTS THAT EVERYONE ELSE HAS ACCESS TO.

I'm playing along with your little game, even though it is a ridiculous question and you have some nerve implying my facts aren't correct, but not having the guts to provide a cogent rebuttal. The obvious truth is that only Trump supporters can explain why they voted for him, and that was the purpose of my thread, to find out if they really did support his policy proposals.

In the reality I live in, when one is having an intelligent debate and disagrees with facts another is providing, he/she normally provides a FACTUAL rebuttal. So now it's time to put your money where your mouth is. This is a direct dare to you. I dare you to provide credible FACTS that contradict what I provided.

Simian: "Posing the most basic question to voters (what policies of a candidate do you agree with?) is a trick question? <= no, that was not your question. You asked if Trump supporters want Trump to keep his promises. My response was in essence: WHICH promises, to who? Cause he made different promises to different folks, as I articulated above."

You are right, my bad. That was not the original question. I am human, I make mistakes. I got mixed up because I intended to explain that my question gave readers latitude to explain what policies they agreed with. My misprint doesn't change my point one iota, though. You asked: WHICH promises, to who? And the answer is the same one I already gave, that that is for the Trump voter to explain. I mean this isn't rocket science. When someone has rational reasons for voting for a candidate they can usually explain what policies they like about the candidate without being provided prompts from the other side. We'd be here forever, though, waiting for that to happen. Neither you, Lancelot or any other Trump voter is going to provide a specific policy of his that you guys favor, let alone why you favor it, so I'll cut to the chase, and play your game, too (not fair to play Lancelot's game and not yours). I have some time to kill before Thursday night football. So I'll give you a specific campaign promise: TARIFFS!

There you go. You got what you wanted. Now the fun can really begin. I put the question directly to YOU, YOUR BUDDY LANCELOT AND ALL OTHER TRUMP SUPPORTERS OUT THERE: Do you agree with Trump's plan for tariffs, and if so, why?

The tariffs were such a central part of his campaign that anyone who voted for him has to be familiar with it IF they voted rationally, and on the issues. But I will once again push things along and help out. Over and over again he has specifically proposed a tariff on Chinese goods of 60% and a tariff of 10% - 20% on all other goods imported into the U.S. I am dying to hear the responses, if there are any. I am fairly certain that very few Trump supporters understand how tariffs actually work.

No, I knew exactly what you ACTUALLY said and that is what I responded to. But you know that, otherwise, you would have specifically explained what I supposedly misinterpreted.

Can you be any more hypocritical in reference to the name-calling and insults? I was just matching your tone. What do you call insinuating Kamala sounded like a "scripted wind-up toy or a drunk puppet?" Not to mention other insults and vile names you've hurled at her our the last few months.

I also can't wait for your fact-check on the information I provided. Just curious, and this is for both Simian and Lancelot: Are the two of you questioning the veracity of the Wall Street Journal, that iconic bastion of conservative economic thought??


CD Richards

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RE: Question for Trump Supporters
Nope, Harambe, not news to anyone.

Harambe is ur Daddy

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RE: Question for Trump Supporters

So to sum up your text in caps: the Dems lost cause they are smart, Trump is a successful liar (yet also both dumb and evil), and Repubs are dumb Fox News viewers. Did I get that right? If that's all you can come up with for why Kamala lost, this is not going to be a productive conversation.

I don't call Kamala Harris names other than the one she already has: Devi (her middle name), which goes great with Cruella De Vil. I have 25-30 beautiful haikus, stories, sonnets, and various other poetic forms talking about that. I also have stories mocking Trump and his supporters.

The Journal is pretty good although they are not perfect. No, I do not think tariffs are a good idea in principle. They could do tremendous damage to US manufacturing that depends on international supply chains, IF IMPLEMENTED POORLY, affecting hundreds of people I know in the US, Europe and Asia in a big way. But this is like the third time I have said this here: Trump is threatening them mainly to make other countries, which have tariffs on us, play fair. Did you know half of Chinese consumers refuse to buy any American products? And their govt has very significant tariffs on us, while simultaneously underwriting their own stuff to dump on our markets? This is a high-stakes game, and you can't play it lying down. The direction of Trump's tariffs policy is largely unknown, which is deliberate. He will use it as a base to negotiate, and we will see how it turns out.

To understand policy proposals, it is necessary to consider not just what they consist of, but who the stakeholders are and how they are communicated. That's why I watch as many interviews as possible -- with Trump and Vance as well as Harris. If you are dismissing the usefulness of watching any of these Trump interviews, you'll never understand why Trump actually won.

Harambe is ur Daddy

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RE: Question for Trump Supporters

And here's a reason Harris lost; she continuously falsely accused Trump about the tariffs, saying that he was going to tax Americans consumers 20%. Nah, that's not gonna happen and here is why:

-The poorest folks are not buying a lot of durable goods made in China. They buy food and fuel. The food is made in the US, and the fuel cost is a function of US foreign policy and energy policy.

-The working poor up through the middle class buy a lot of crap made in China. And a lot of it really is crap, stuff we don't need. When Trump imposed tariffs on China, the quality of goods dropped instead of prices going up (this was extensively covered in the Journal) in the short term, and longer term, supply chains started to shift. A larger share of goods now state they are made in other Southeast Asian countries: Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam for example. The higher tariffs go up on China, the more you will see stuff coming from there.

-The rich buy a smaller percent of their crap from China because they can buy what they want from who they want, in theory. But in reality they are mostly running businesses, and they have to deal with the tariffs and supply chain stuff to stay IN business and it eats up a lot of their time to manage.

I could go on about tariffs and international supply chains but the uptake from it is that regulations change the flow of trade. Trump's goal is to get countries to drop their own protective tariffs, leveling the playing field. He is not as stupid as you think. (Although the way we implemented steel tariffs was pretty stupid, both under Bush and under Trump. There is some guy with heavy lobbying clout who has been steering the Repubs wrong on steel for decades.)


Harambe is ur Daddy

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RE: Question for Trump Supporters

Another point 🍌🐟 said that relates to tariffs:

>> He has said it repeatedly and emphatically, and made it clear he absolutely intended to do it. He even gave specific numbers. If Kamala supporters tried to excuse her remarks in that way you would go ape. When you repeatedly make emphatic campaign promises reasonable voters have every right to take it at face value and not think he is playing infantile games. And even if your take is correct, it doesn't preclude people from saying whether or not they want to see it implemented. <<

No, actually that is not how deal making works anywhere in the world. Surely at some point in your life, you have bartered for an item. Trump's most famous book is on exactly this subject: The Art of the Deal. I haven't read it, but we have all seen it played out.

Bernie Sanders advocated a number of years ago for a $15 minimum wage. Everyone knew it was too high to happen, but starting the ask that that level affected changes on state levels.

Labor unions always start with absurdly high wage demands. They never get everything they ask for. They ask for the moon, and get a lot more than if they had asked for a $1/hr raise.

Harris campaigned on a $50k business startup tax credit. That is absurdly high. So was her $25k house purchase credit. (Obama had one that was maybe around $8k I think). Well, if she had won, she would have taken that proposal to Congress and they might have made a deal with some concessions that gave her some of what she asked for.

So libs do this inflationary stuff all the time, yet Trump does something sort of similar in defense of US manufacturing and you’re wondering if he will do exactly, literally the numbers he threw out. You can bet the farm that you will see exceptions and compromises and those will probably not be the final numbers, and you will have to read all the fine print and know about all the back door deals to know what is really going on.

kiwisteveh


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RE: Question for Trump Supporters
Harambe, you give trump WAY too much credit. All of the evidence is that he is dumb as an ox. he was spouting about tariffs because he genuinely believes that they are the magic solution to financing everything he has promised to do.

BTW Xi is at the Opec meeting in Peru rubbing his hands together at the thought of the US scuppering half its trade by introducing tariffs...

Perhaps you don't believe what I said above, but there is at least as much evidence for it as for your claim that he is using talk of tariffs as a negotiating tool. Can you back up that claim with anything at all?

Oh, and I forgot. If not from the magic bank of tariffs, where is the money coming from for the gazillions he needs to carry out his promises? Is he planning to sell more sneakers and bibles? Wait, wait, it's Crypto isn't it?


Bananafish308

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RE: Question for Trump Supporters
Well said, Steve. Your last point is one of the many points I was going to make when I had the time. His proposed tax cuts for billionaires and mega-corporations are estimated to add $3 trillion over 10 years to the deficit, so he had to come up with some ridiculous plan to finance it and at the same time sucker his supporters into believing that yet another of his pathetic plans would actually benefit them.

I have much more to say about the tariffs when I have the time, including refuting quite a few misrepresentations previously posted.

Harambe is ur Daddy

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RE: Question for Trump Supporters

Message edited:

Kiwi, you obviously have not been keeping up with the news over the last week on the potential for up to $2 TRILLION (correcting a typo where I earlier wrote "billion") in federal budget cuts proposed by Musk and Ramaswamy. And yeah we really would need to cut that much to balance the budget right now. No, tariffs won't raise a ton of funds but deregulation, budget cuts, and accelerated technology innovation likely would.




Bananafish308

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RE: Question for Trump Supporters
The total cost of his tax cuts could be as high as $4.6 trillion over 10 years if he extends all of the expiring provisions for his 2017 tax cuts.

And his proposed tax cuts ARE NOT a negotiating tactic. He promised these cuts to his billionaire cronies and he is not about to screw them over.


Bananafish308

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RE: Question for Trump Supporters
Seriously, Simian??? Yeah, I've been following that and I've been dying to mention it, so thanks for beating me to it. First of all, the number they are saying is $2 trillion, not $2 billion. And if you believe that, then I have some ocean-front property in Iowa that I'd like to sell you.

Do you really not understand how utterly absurd it is to claim they will cut $2 trillion? How much do you want to bet they don't do it? And if they do, it would be devastating to our economy and the middle class you claim to care about so much.

By the way, a $2 billion cut is so piddling it would do nothing.

   
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