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lancellot
RE: This is Amazing Logic
Yes, I saw those numbers, and many things were reduced during COVID. And yes, Biden fumbled the ball and opened the flood gates. But, what's happening now, isn't really about immigration or facts or law or the numbers. This Forum is proof. There were no objections when Obama or Biden deported millions. None.
No one called Obama a King when he famously declared: "I have pen and a phone." and created DACA by Executive Order, after deporting millions, caging kids, and separating families. No one blinked, marched or came to the forums to complain.
Basically, all of the hoopla is because they've been told to hate and resist Trump.
RE: This is Amazing Logic
Right. In terms of personality and magnitude, Trump seems to have a bit in common with LBJ, satirized brilliantly by Orson Wells, although their policies were a bit different. That goes back farther than I do, but many of the folks on this site were around for that, and maybe they could tell us how much flack LBJ took for his language and style.
RE: This is Amazing Logic
Message edited:
"Their policies were a bit different".
I'll say. LBJ's "Great Society" included the following:
🏥 Health Care
1. Medicare (1965) Health insurance for Americans 65 and older, regardless of income or medical history.
2. Medicaid (1965) Health coverage for low-income individuals and families, jointly funded by federal and state governments.
📚 Education
3. Elementary and Secondary Education Act (1965) Federal funding for public schools, especially those serving low-income communities.
4. Higher Education Act (1965) Financial aid (grants, loans, work-study) to help students attend college.
5. Head Start (1965) Early childhood education, health, and nutrition for low-income preschool children.
🧑🏾⚖️ Civil Rights and Equality
6. Civil Rights Act of 1964 Outlawed segregation in public places and banned employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin.
7. Voting Rights Act of 1965 Prohibited racial discrimination in voting, removing barriers like literacy tests.
8. Civil Rights Act of 1968 (Fair Housing Act) Banned housing discrimination based on race, religion, or national origin.
🏘️ Urban Development and Housing
9. Housing and Urban Development Act (1965) Created the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD). Provided funds for urban renewal, public housing, and rent subsidies.
💰 Poverty and Economic Opportunity
10. Economic Opportunity Act (1964) Created the Office of Economic Opportunity (OEO) to coordinate anti-poverty programs: Job Corps: Job training for youth. VISTA (Volunteers in Service to America): Domestic Peace Corps. Community Action Programs: Local organizations addressing poverty. Work-Study Program: Part-time jobs for low-income college students.
🌳 Environment
11. Clean Air Act (1963, expanded in 1965) Regulated air pollution and emissions from factories and vehicles.
12. Water Quality Act (1965) Set water pollution standards and required states to clean up rivers and lakes.
📺 Culture and Media
13. Public Broadcasting Act (1967) Created the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, leading to PBS and NPR.
Summary:
LBJ’s Great Society encompassed dozens of initiatives, with the following goals:
End poverty End racial injustice
Expand access to health care and education
Improve housing and urban life
Protect the environment
Promote culture and media access
If you had to compile a list of the exact opposite of everything Trump is trying to achieve, that would be it.
"Basically, all of the hoopla is because they've been told to hate and resist Trump."
And his good little disciples have been taught to obey his every whim, as he commands - because he's such a nice guy. Nobody had to tell me to despise and resist Trump, it came naturally, as it does for anyone who doesn't like unhinged, megalomaniacal dictators. Trump has more in common with a petulant three-year-old than he does with LBJ. I draw the line at comparing him to other dictators personality wise, because most of them, in spite of being evil, have a backbone.
RE: This is Amazing Logic
Nobody was 'told to hate and resist Trump' any more than anyone was 'told' to love and idolise him.
Yes, there's truth in the fact that Obama and Biden also did some shocking things. Yes it's true that the reaction was different.
Now, can we sensibly look at why that might be the case for a moment? Does anybody really believe it's because all 'liberals' are blind, brainwashed idiots, whilst those who love and support him have all calmly and sensibly reached their own conclusions using logical mental processes?
Why haven't other Presidents been such divisive figures? Why have some, in effect, 'got away with' things Trump is being hauled over the coals for?
In the UK, we've got a product called Marmite. The antipodean equivalent is Vegemite. I don't know if Americans have similar, but anyway, the UK product was, for a long time, advertised with the slogan, 'love it or hate it'. It's one of those tastes. You either love it or you hate it. There's no, 'well, it's OK I suppose' or indifference, for anyone that's tried it, it's either love or hate.
Some people are like that. You love them, you loathe them, but they don't cause feelings of indifference.
Marmite is a strong, unique flavour. It doesn't taste like anything else, and there isn't anything you can add to it to make it more palatable if you don't like it.
Trump is like that. His rhetoric isn't tempered by a mild manner, or diplomacy. When Trump does something, he doesn't quietly get on with it, he shouts it from the rooftops.
Nobody was told to hate Trump. He showed us what he was, and I'll give him that, he hasn't hidden anything beneath a mask. He doesn't check himself, he doesn't take the diplomatic path. He doesn't try to appeal to his detractors, he simply sticks two fingers up at them and publicly berates them.
Like I said on another thread, America is used to fairly centralist politics. A little to the left. A little to the right. Trump isn't even attempting a balance. So obviously, there's going to be a greater divide than Obama, Biden or anyone else caused.
Quieter leaders get away with more because they don't evoke a visceral reaction.
None of this is really about the types of people the 'left' and the 'right' are. It's about the type of person Trump is.
It's one of the problems of single personality leadership as opposed to party leadership.
Trump's personality, frankly, gets in the way, which makes him possibly a good choice as leader of the opposition, but a bad choice as leader of a nation.
RE: This is Amazing Logic
I hate marmite.
RE: This is Amazing Logic
Nobody in the UK or US or Australia has to eat Vegemite or Marmite if they choose not to. All of us have Trump's chaos and insanity thrust upon us whether we like it or not. And it's becoming clearer every day the old "it doesn't concern you" tripe doesn't wash.
Not sure if I mentioned this before, Emma, but Vegemite was, for a short period of time (1928-1935), renamed Pawill. It was a marketing gimmick - Marmite, but Pa will. It only took them seven years to decide that ridiculous idea was never going to take hold, at which point they changed its name back.
We have had a couple of different knock-offs over here trying to cash in on our national food's popularity - including one cleverly named (or not) MightyVeg, but none have ever been able to replicate the taste. They are downright horrible, imo.
I've tried Marmite, but didn't like it - no doubt a matter of what I'm used to, rather than any flaw in the product. It's definitely quite different from our product.
Tip: Vegemite with avocado on toast sounds weird, but it's scrumptious. Have you ever tried Marmite with avo?
Sorry for the diversion. Your analogy was a good one. Back to regular programming.
RE: This is Amazing Logic
Not really worth opening a new thread for, as its just one more in an endless stream of moments illustrating this buffoon has no clue.
Remember how Trump famously didn't know the difference between England, Great Britain and the UK?
Well now he's shown he doesn't realise the UK is not the EU. This is your elected national leader, people. Pat yourselves on the back.
RE: This is Amazing Logic
This is more what I mean about similarity between Trump and LBJ. Craig's gonna love it.
RE: This is Amazing Logic
Sorry, just to carry on a theme with Craig for a moment, I don't like avocado. Tastes like soap, which reminds me that there's a herb that's like marmite. Coriander. Apparently, it's a genetic predisposition. Some will innately find Coriander tastes like soap.
So I wonder if there is a genetic disposition towards our like or otherwise of certain types of divisive personalities.
It might be one more argument for the positives of diversity.
Nations like Russia and China are famously not terribly diverse. Such nations, with little outside influence, would have been more inbred, even with large populations. If the populace is predisposed to certain ideologies, with little genetic variance, the pattern continues.
It's a thought for consideration, isn't it? That in actual fact, moderate nations like the US are so because of their diversity, not in spite of it.
RE: This is Amazing Logic
Interesting article, Harambe. Of course, being a conservative publication, its stance is hardly unexpected. However:
• LBJ was never indicted for attempting to overthrow a lawfully elected government, and didn’t incite an insurrection to achieve that end;
• LBJ was never indicted for, nor convicted of, criminal activities;
• LBJ never used his office for personal pecuniary gain;
• LBJ never tried to undermine trust in the election process without evidence;
• LBJ never attacked the independence of the judiciary, law enforcement, intelligence agencies and the media;
• LBJ was never found legally liable for sexual abuse, or accused by more than 24 women of sexual misconduct;
• LBJ didn’t profit from fraud;
• LBJ didn’t insult, belittle, or undermine leaders of allied countries and friendly nations;
• LBJ didn’t withdraw his country from multinational scientific, humanitarian and economic forums because he couldn’t play nicely with others;
• LBJ didn’t fill his staff with totally unqualified and inept family members, business associates and personal friends;
• LBJ didn’t use the National Guard against the wishes of local officials, and when he did, it was to protect civil rights, not trample them.
These are not solely, or even mainly, matters of policy; they are actions that testify to the motivation and character of the two individuals.
While all of the character flaws brought out in the article referenced by Harambe are most likely true with regard to LBJ, and some bear a resemblance to those of Trump, the latter’s transgressions, his megalomaniacal self-interest and self-promotion and his total lack of regard for everyone other than himself demonstrate that, in actual fact, the two are chalk and cheese.
Emma:
Interesting thought. Australia’s foreign-born population percentage is double that of both the US and the UK, so to hear some on this site crying about how bad immigration is doesn’t stack up. Also, although there are occasional incidents of extremist unpleasantness here, both the number and scale of incidents seem far lower than either the US or UK. One thing I think all the countries have in common (I haven’t checked them all recently, so stand to be corrected if I’m wrong), is that native-born individuals in all three countries outnumber immigrants in terms of violent crime per capita. So yes, maybe a diverse population does encourage ALL citizens to appreciate views and lifestyles other than their own, and to get along with their neighbours.
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