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RE: This is Amazing Logic

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Well, it was too feminist of me, so probably won't get a response.

So I will add this. If we rioted every time someone committed a crime, any crime, who didn't have a foreign accent or look different, we'd never be off the streets.

But it's somehow different when someone from somewhere else does it, isn't it?

Romanians and other Europeans have been living on these shores for years and years. Generations, in fact. Why now are we rioting when somebody of that nationality commits a crime?

Of course, some not very nice people have moved here. Sometimes their parents moved here.

Newsflash, some not very nice people have moved from here to somewhere else. Ireland has a huge diaspora, with many in America.

So if an Irishman commits a crime in America, are there riots over it? After all, he's an immigrant.

What about the Italian mafia presence in America? Al Capone's parents were from just outside Naples. Was there rioting over Italian Immigrants when he was arrested?

The American mafia is still a thing and has its origins in the immigration of Italians in the 19th and early 20th century. The American mafia are still the backbone of a lot of organised crime in America. So where's the rioting? Where's the petrol bombs through the windows of Italian restaurants?

Is it OK because not all Italian Americans are gangsters? Bingo. Now apply that to everybody else from another country.

And no, the mafia isn't 'different' because they wear suits, made a lot of money and used it to play an integral role in creating Las Vegas. They are still criminals and people still get hurt. And it all started with Italian immigrants.

We are suddenly making a big fuss about something that has been going on for centuries in every direction. Despite what film and TV would have us believe, the UK has been home to 'foreigners' since we discovered boats. Many of 'them' in the last two centuries are here because 'we' colonised their countries and brought them back with us to serve us.

And today we are still doing it. Inviting people over to do the work we don't want to do, then shitting on them for being here, taking our jobs, etc.

It's the sheer inconsistency and hypocrisy of the whole thing I can't be doing with.

And if any Brit thinks we are angels abroad, ask Spain about the British underclass, the drunkenness, the fact that people who have lived there 20 years and don't speak the language...

We expect integration, yet we are one of the worst at integrating elsewhere.

RE: This is Amazing Logic

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Oh, and 60-odd years ago, we had the same fears here about the Windrush generation. Many were scared about being murdered in their beds by the black men. Signs went up on boarding house doors saying 'no blacks'.

People thought they were dirty, lazy and violent. People imagined their 'culture' infiltrating ours. And yes, there were some riots.

60 years on, those people are still here. Their children and grandchildren were born here. . In deference to Lance, I won't tell you all the things Brits thought about black people or the way they were treated, but a lot of it wasn't dissilimar to what Harambe said about the Somalians.

Some commit crimes. We aren't rioting every time they do. Ditto the Bangladeshis we have here, the Vietnamese boat people, the Ghurkas, the Chinese...

I know people think the UK isn't diverse. It is. We don't have as large a black community as the States but we have a sizeable Asian community, Eastern Europeans in most towns (My husband loves it where we live, there's lots of Eastern European shops which sell different types of cooked meat products).

And it's been like that ever since I can remember.

RE: This is Amazing Logic

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Re: Craig --

Chasing down, arresting, and deporting people who have lived for years, even decades in your country, paying taxes and contributing to society is not the answer.

That makes for nice headlines, but how much of that is happening? The articles that you posted earlier suggest that the people having their cases closed who are being swiftly deported have been here two years or less. Please provide evidence for more than exceptional one-off situations.

Q: How do you get to a $1.9 trillion annual budget deficit?
A: A million at a time.

This is exactly what DOGE is dealing with. Maybe not that well in some cases, but they are learning and adapting hopefully as they mature. Remember that there are a million millions in a trillion. And I'm going to repeat what I said earlier since it seems you didn't read or comprehend it. The US military has a recruiting problem, and it spends some $2 billion a year on recruiting and retention. This parade amounts to 2% of that budget, and could be a reasonable and effective expense. The USM probably did not have a recruiting problem in 1975.

Th last US military parade was in 1991 to celebrate the end of the Gulf War. It was reported to cost $12 million and we have had roughly 135% inflation since then, and the military budget has increased by 170%, so in real terms, a cost projection of $25-$45 million doesn't seem that outrageous and the media that can be generated for recruiting will be significant. It wouldn't be my first choice for generating recruiting material, but again, it is 2% of their recruiting/retention budget. If you don't want to make this about Trump like you keep saying, maybe your focus should be on the overall US military budget proposal to increase by 13% next year. But we’re paying the taxes for it, not you. (This is where I would expect you to pipe up and say "oh but WE ARE because of tariffs". We can get back into that in another thread.)

Trump apparently got the idea from the Bastille Day parade in 2017. I hope he isn't going to receive a folded American flag, as has been reported, as that would be utterly tasteless from someone who got out of serving himself over bone spurs. But whatever. Next thing, you'll probably start telling us how much that flag he receives costs taxpayers, but it's the symbolism that matters. And you want to make it about Trump's birthday, but it is also Flag Day, and flags are symbols.

What else? You want me to enumerate your false equivalents. "Defending fascist dictators" -- I've done no such thing. I merely commented on policies. Due Process is something that's relevant to citizens; illegal immigrants do not have rights. Shooting and gassing innocent protestors -- were they all innocent? I don't know, but I doubt it. That's called collateral damage, stemming from violent protesters using the peaceful ones as shields, and it is very common in riot situations. I don't see the relevance of this to January 6th when Trump has not at this time invoked the insurrection act, which he knows perfectly well would not give him good optics. Showing up to court and having a chance to reenter the country in 7 years instead of never again is tough, but I just don't have much sympathy for people who came here illegally. I have much more sympathy for the people who were waiting in line and, because of the illegals, cannot come in anymore.

RE: This is Amazing Logic

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If I decide to ride this merry-go-round any longer, after having already addressed nearly everything above multiple times, it will be after you've responded to Emma.

RE: This is Amazing Logic

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Craig, I really need to do something else with my morning other than reply immediately to everything that is written here. Fine. The US has had plenty of past annoyances with Irish and Italian immigrants. So, we enacted Columbus Day to pacify the Italians. How progressive of us. Now the liberals want to kill Columbus Day. Do I hate Italians? Nope. I love pizza.

RE: This is Amazing Logic

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Hasn't answered anything. I didn't ask if you had past annoyance. I asked if there were riots every time one of them committed a crime and if innocent Italians and Irish people were held accountable for the actions of every fellow countryman of theirs.

And before anyone trots old the old 'fine with immigrants if they come in legally', the posting of the Ballymena video is an example of how it doesn't seem to make a difference how they arrived. People just want an excuse to blame everything on 'foreigners'.

It's easy, it's a cop-out, it's an excuse frequently used in my country by the unemployed and unemployable, who have spent a lifetime living off taxpayer's money and are now upset it's harder for them to claim it.

RE: This is Amazing Logic

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It's morning here, and I've just logged on.

Yes, Emma, you're right. A crime is a crime. I appreciate your honestly. So let me be just as honest.

It's called: SELETIVE OUTRAGE

You are upset with the riot in the Ireland over, as you rightly state, things that have been done by non-immigrants. And there were no riots.

I could ask, and have asked on this forum the same thing, during the BLM riots after Saint George Floyd was killed, or the riots after Trayvon Martin was killed, or the Watts riots or... and so on.

Why did liberals and black people here riot when a black person was killed or shot by a white person? But, the hundreds shot and killed daily when blacks do it each other OR other races, there are crickets... the silence is deafening. Asian are killed and attacked by black people here in STUNNING RATES. Rates so bad, and unbelievable, the DOJ stopped publishing it. NO ONE RIOTS. NO ONE TALKS ABOUT IT. NO PROTESTS, NO MARCHES. NO activists, politicians, clergy or media speaks about it. No CD or his friends ever mentions it.

In my country if a white teen killed a black teen there would be mass outrage. When the reverse happens (as it just did in Texas) black people and liberal protest FOR the black killer, start Go Fund Me pages, raising thousands of dollars for the killer.

Make it make sense.

So, when the reverse finally happens and people on the other side of political spectrum snap.... Why acted shocked and cry: WHY

Seriously, EMMA. Why is it okay for one side but not the other?

RE: This is Amazing Logic

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BOTH 'sides' are inconsistent. I haven't said otherwise, have I?

The actions of those in stupid riots are deplorable, and it's never really 'about' the apparent issue.

You.posted a video up about a riot in defence of your argument about immigration affecting everywhere.

But it's not 'immigration' is it? If it was, we'd have had riots every single time someone of another creed or colour committed a crime.

Make it make sense.

I'll tell you what I think it's really about in my country. Every time there's riots, whether because some black person got shot (happens here, too, but less common and usually when it's the police that did the shooting. Since the police here don't all carry guns, it's much rather), or some Asian commits any sort of crime (which is what it seems to be, these days) or a protest march against racism (used to be Antifa or the ANL back in the day) gets violent, it's always at times when the economic and political climate in the country isn't good.

I can pinpoint some of the big riots.in recent years, here. The Tottenham riots were in the midst of Tory austerity, not long after the global crash. The recent riots which I wrote about some time ago as nearly landing on my own doorstep, well, we are in the grip of a cost of living crisis that isn't getting easier. Work is hard to find, particularly after a recent epic blunder by the government here which is causing job losses (probably my own included,since Easter my regular supply work has dropped off a cliff).

We, as a people, are miserable. We're picking on easy targets to blame,and unlike what you tell me of your papers, our media mostly isn't 'left' if you view left from the point of view of pro-immigration, men pretending to be women, or anything else you care to name as 'left'. Our media tends to rather stoke the 'divide and conquer' fire, encouraging the idea that turning the least well off people against eachother is a better idea than having them all club together and look at some of the actual causes.

Same thing is going on with your BLM. Blame someone else so you don't have to look too close at what the real issues might be because they will be harder to solve.

Immigration is, and always has been, an easy target. Some convenient scapegoat we're all being forced to look at under a microscope by lazy journalists who don't want to piss off those who own the media.

Point the finger at the foreigners and say, 'it's their fault'. Their fault you are poor, their fault there's no money in the NHS, their fault you can't afford to buy a house.

Same with your BLM people. Point finger, blame, don't bother to look too deeply at the real causes.

Ever thought how convenient all this in-fighting is? How nicely it gets us all looking away from successive governments over the past 40 years (in the UK, at any rate)whittling our economy down to a scrag end and handing what's left over to their rich pals.

If all the immigrants buggered off tomorrow, we wouldn't be better off because none of that money saved would come back to us. We've been out of the EU for nearly 10 years now, where's the extra £350 million for the NHS each year we kept hearing we'd have?

Stop foreign aid, stop the boats etc, is the cry of the fiscally uneducated who don't know a lot about government spending but that's something they can see (or at least read the hyperbole about in the newspapers. Most people aren't sat at ports watching boatloads come in every day and are believing what they read). And the government would rather they talked about that than looked a little deeper.

Yes. We are being lied to. But not in the way some think.

RE: This is Amazing Logic
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RE: This is Amazing Logic

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I agree with you, Emma. We are all being lied to. Our governments and media are corrupt, people that's what happens when people get power. They become corrupt.

The one truth I know for sure for our problems is... there is no answer.
You are correct blaming immigrants, legal or illegal for all our woes is silly, but so is blaming all world and national issues on Trump (as if there was peace and prosperity before him).