RE: Fascism
Well, my suspicion is that you had AI create a list which you then cherrypicked to resemble Trump's style. Here's what I got when I typed "characteristics of fascism" into my browser.
Authoritarianism:
Fascism is characterized by a centralized, dictatorial government with limited or no checks and balances on power.
Nationalism:
An extreme form of nationalism, prioritizing the nation above all else, often with a focus on racial or religious identity.
Cult of Personality:
A charismatic leader who is seen as infallible and embodies the nation's identity.
Suppression of Dissent:
Freedom of expression and the press are severely restricted, and opposition is ruthlessly suppressed.
Militarism:
A strong emphasis on military strength and a glorification of violence.
Social Hierarchy:
A belief in a natural social hierarchy, where individuals are ranked based on their position or perceived worth.
Corporatism:
A system of government where the state controls the economy and regulates relationships between businesses and labor.
Totalitarianism:
Fascism seeks to control all aspects of life, including thought, belief, and behavior.
Anti-Democracy:
Fascism is fundamentally anti-democratic, seeking to dismantle democratic institutions and processes.
Racism and Xenophobia:
Often involves racial discrimination and prejudice against minority groups or immigrants.
Focus on National Security:
Fascists often portray the nation as being under threat and use this as justification for repressive measures.
Exploitation of Fear and Anger:
Fascist movements often exploit societal anxieties and fears to gain support and power.
The differences between your list and mine are subtle, but significant.
RE: Fascism
As always, you are wrong.
I did not cherry pick anything, I copied it verbatim from what ChatGPT provided. Why? Because I agreed with every single word.
So what is your point?
Which one is NOT true of Lord Voldemort's administration?
RE: Fascism
Do you seriously think I deliberately omitted racism and xenophobia? They are right up there with the most obvious of Cheeto's defining characteristics, and, by implication, those who voted for him.
Thanks for the useful additions.
RE: Fascism
Glorification of violence is not really a Trump trait (except when he said Al Baghdadi "died like a dog"). He talks a lot of crap about expanding US territories, but none of that is likely to happen. There is no "centralized, dictatorial government with limited or no checks and balances on power" (the courts are actually doing quite a bit to constrain him). Trump is married out of convenience to libertarians, who seek to de-tax and unregulate business in general, not regulate it, with the exception of his disruptive tariffs. And it doesn't meet the definition of totalitarianism, despite his press secretary's constant gaslighting.
RE: Fascism
I think the message you shared from Trump rather belies the idea that he doesn't glorify violence, Harambe.
Send in the troops?
I mean, that's not gung ho in the slightest, is it?
On the whole I am inclined to think we bandy words like 'fascism' and 'communism' about with the abandon that people who don't know what it is to live in either regime usually do.
But I can definitely recognise traits on the lists both of you have posted.
I'll also say I don't think aligning oneself with Libertarians lets anyone off the fascism hook.
Libertarians tend mostly to be wealthy individuals who are quite happy to exploit other people to ensure that wealth is retained and are often quite keen on law and order - for the people who serve them in some capacity.
Libertarianism isn't so much 'low tax, low interference' as, 'low tax, low interference for ME. Oh, but by the way, I'll still be writing snotty letters to the New York Times if the public facilities I don't want to pay for aren't up to standard, and whilst I want the freedom to shoot the oik trespassing on my lawn, I'd really rather he didn't have the freedom to shoot back'.
There's quite a bit of authoritarianism about the average Libertarian in the sense that they do expect the rules to apply to other people.
RE: Fascism
Message edited:
"Glorification of violence is not really a Trump trait".
It's also not something I listed. Nevertheless, it's definitely something typical of fascist regimes, so well worth looking at.
As is becoming more common, I asked my ChatGPT pal for help, not because I'm ignorant of facts, but because it can find in seconds things I might spend hours researching. Remember "Work smarter, not harder"? Here are a few tidbits my friend found. This list is by no means exhaustive, it offered more, if I require them. Just a tip, Harambe. You might consider fact-checking yourself using my AI buddy before you make some of your more outlandish statements.
1. Campaign Rally Remarks (2015–2016)
“Knock the crap out of them”:
At a February 2016 rally in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, Trump told supporters to "knock the crap out of" any protesters who might throw tomatoes, adding, "I promise you, I will pay for the legal fees."
2. “I'd like to punch him in the face”:
Later that month in Las Vegas, Trump said of a protester, "I'd like to punch him in the face," and reminisced about the "old days" when such individuals would be "carried out on a stretcher."
3. Police Conduct Speech (July 2017)
During a speech to law enforcement officers in Long Island, New York, Trump encouraged officers not to be "too nice" when arresting suspects, suggesting they shouldn't protect suspects' heads when placing them in police vehicles.
4. "When the looting starts, the shooting starts" Tweet (May 2020)
In response to protests following George Floyd's death, Trump tweeted, "Any difficulty and we will assume control but, when the looting starts, the shooting starts." The phrase, historically associated with a 1967 Miami police chief's crackdown on civil unrest, was widely criticized for inciting violence. Twitter flagged the tweet for "glorifying violence."
5. January 6 Capitol Riot (2021)
On January 6, 2021, Trump addressed supporters in Washington, D.C., urging them to "fight like hell" and march to the Capitol. The speech preceded the violent attack on the Capitol building. Trump was subsequently impeached for "incitement of insurrection."
6. "Stand back and stand by" Comment (September 2020)
During a presidential debate, when asked to condemn white supremacist groups, Trump told the Proud Boys, a far-right group, to "stand back and stand by," a statement interpreted by many as a call to action.
7. "Civil War" Tweet (September 2019)
Trump quoted a pastor's statement suggesting that his removal from office would cause a "Civil War like fracture." Critics argued this rhetoric could incite violence among his supporters.
8. "Bloodbath" Prediction (March 2024)
At a 2024 rally, Trump warned of a "bloodbath for the country" if he were not re-elected, a statement seen by some as a threat of potential violence.
9. Recent Military Deployments and Rhetoric (2025)
In June 2025, Trump deployed federal troops to Los Angeles against the wishes of California's governor to suppress protests related to immigration enforcement. Critics described this as an authoritarian move, with some labeling it "dictator cosplay."
10. “Second Amendment People” Remark (August 2016)
During a campaign rally, Trump suggested that if Hillary Clinton were elected and appointed judges unfavorable to gun rights, "Second Amendment people" might take matters into their own hands. This comment was widely perceived as a veiled threat or incitement to violence.
11. Call to “Take Out” Terrorists' Families (December 2015)
In discussing strategies against ISIS, Trump advocated for targeting and killing terrorists' family members, stating, "You have to take out their families." This proposal was condemned as a call for war crimes and an endorsement of violence against civilians.
12. Praise for Assaulting a Reporter (October 2018)
At a Montana rally, Trump lauded Congressman Greg Gianforte for physically assaulting a journalist, saying, "Any guy that can do a body slam, he's my guy." This endorsement of violence against the press drew widespread criticism.
13. Increased Use of Violent Rhetoric Over Time
Analyses of Trump's speeches from 2015 to 2024 indicate a significant rise in violent language, with the proportion of violent words increasing from 0.6% to 1.6%. For the mathematically challenged, that means it has approximately tripled over the past decade. This trend suggests a growing normalization of violent rhetoric in his public addresses.
(I have not provided references to the quotations, as they are common knowledge. I can, if need be. I have provided a link to the article noting his increase in the use of violent language. The entire article is most enlightening.)
Remember, this is not some thug the people chose to be spokesperson at a title fight, this is the thug they elected to represent their country on the world stage.
Emma: perhaps those words do get bandied about more than they should. My opinion is the US is not yet fully a fascist dictatorship, but under the current administration it is well on the way to becoming one. And if the current would-be tyrant is not stopped in his tracks, it will be before long. The evidence pointing to this is insurmountable, and widely reported. A bit has been said about judges resisting some of his more outrageous demands. Little has been said here about the flagrant disregard in many cases for the judiciary, not to mention the attacks upon it - classical dictator stuff. I might be back for more, time is becoming a bit of a problem at the moment.
RE: Fascism
As I did go on to say, Craig, the lists both you and Harambe provided do have behavioural alignments with Trump.
Embryonic, possibly, but you can see where it could go.
One of my favourite quotes for its sheer prescience is from Jerome K Jerome's 'Three Men on the Bummel' , published in 1900.
He observed that the Germans were good at being led, and leading others, but not leading themselves. He added, and I quote:
'The German has the blessed fortune to be extremely well governed; if this continues it will go well with him. When his troubles will begin will be when, by any chance, something goes wrong with the governing machine'.
The American 'Governing machine' is obviously very different from the highly regulated Germany JKJ was observing in 1900, but the differing mentality doesn't mean a dictatorship couldn't happen. It simply means it would take a different method to get there.
I always thought it couldn't happen because American citizens wouldn't stand for it. But maybe the truth is that they just need a different carrot.
You can lead a horse to water and make him drink if you know what the horse prizes most of all. Americans might value their freedom, but rhetoric and a good sales pitch goes a long way over there. It might not be so hard to take that freedom if you sell it in the right way...
RE: Fascism
Message edited:
It's interesting what you have to say at the end there, Emma. I've just finished watching an interview with Australian political reporter Peter Hartcher, which I'll post to the "What the sane people are saying" thread. It's a very thoughtful, cautious analysis of what is happening now in LA. In it, he mentions that a survey taken prior to the election of Trump in 2024 found that 60% of people recognised his dictatorial inclinations, and yet they elected him anyway. So, as I've observed more than once, it's not a surprise - they're getting what they wanted. It's more a question of "will they want it once they've got it?"
RE: Fascism
Yeah I'm familiar with most of those Trump quotes, and it's the increase in rhetoric (#13) that I agree is of some particular concern. Trump has always been a bit of a trash-talking bully. What I should have been more specific in pointing out is that Trump's isolationist tendencies are the opposite of what Germany's were. Deaths from foreign conflicts around the world dropped every year Trump was in office, and that's probably not a coincidence. Congress would not likely authorize long-term use of force to acquire new territories, and large blocks of the officer corps would reject orders they believe are unconstitutional. The good thing is, Trump is old. He has about 3 1/2 years in which he can play around. And there are forces greater than himself at play: the rise of intelligent robots is around the corner, and China's navy is increasing to a massive size.
Interestingly, Trump's talk of a golden dome sounds more useful in the South China Sea. But the best we can hope for there is to stop China.
RE: Fascism
I'd like to see the evidence of the reduction of deaths in conflict and something tangible relating that to Trump. It certainly hasn't been the case this time round, so even if there was any truth there, it's not worked this time. He couldn't even put a spoke in the wheel of his mate, Putin.
I don't think China's sharpening their knives either. When China comes for the West, the first we'll know about it is either the cough we all have in the morning or every gadget we possess ceasing to operate.
They've got us in the palm of their hand because they, I hate to admit, took advantage of our superiority complex. We thought we could use them as cheap labour. I think we'll come to regret that.
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