


RE: Question for Trump Supporters
Can you please give me a chance to respond to your first post??? There was a lot to respond to.
No, I don't know what CNN said about keeping his campaign promises and that is not what I was getting at. What I was asking is as straightforward as one can get. Ask me if I wanted Biden to keep his campaign promises and you would have gotten a dissertation for an answer. I love talking about policies I support and why. Fascinating how Trump supporters get so defensive, and sometimes even obnoxious and insulting when you ask them that very simple question.
I will address one thing right now that you mentioned, prescription drug prices.
What Trump plan are you talking about?? I haven't seen any plan. But what about what Biden/Harris have already done to lower drug prices for seniors:
-The Inflation Reduction Act signed by Biden allows (for the first time) Medicaire to negotiate directly with pharmaceutical companies on the cost of certain high-priced drugs. For years REPUBLICANS repeatedly blocked Democrats' attempts to lift the ban on Medicare negotiating directly with drug companies. When the negotiated prices go into effect in 2026, it is expected to save seniors $1.5 billion in that year (It would have saved $6 billion in 2023).
-Biden/Harris also capped out- of- pocket drug costs for Medicare at $2000, starting in 2025.
-They also enacted a price cap of $35 on insulin for Medicare recipients. They tried to apply the cap to all who have medical insurance, but Reps blocked that effort, so it is limited to senior citizens.
Now please give me a chance to respond to your earlier stuff. I can only respond to so much at once, and you certainly threw a lot out there in your first post alone.
RE: Question for Trump Supporters
Message edited:
Okay, it's like an itch that has to be scratched. I had to stop in the middle of my rather lengthy response to Simian to respond to the following:
Lancelot: "Clearly, it's not just "Trump supporters" but the majority of the electorate..."
That is far from clear. It is impossible to know the exact political leanings of all the voters, but as it stands now, Trump has gotten 1,646,859 more votes now than he did in 2020. Hence the faulty assumption that these are non-Trump supporters who flipped. Interestingly, there were 11,898,177 first-time voters this election, and Trump won them by a margin of 56% to 43%". If you do the math, Trump got 1,546,763 more first-time voters than Kamala. Pretty damn close to the 1,646,859 additional votes from last time. Since this is the first time they are voting, and they voted for him, clearly they are Trump supporters. Furthermore, at the moment he has 50.2% of the vote, hardly an overwhelming majority. Since 13% of the ballots in California have yet to be counted, it is quite possible he ends up with less than 50% yet again.
RE: Question for Trump Supporters
We are merely pointing out that someone could utterly despise Trump and still vote for him just to stop Harris. I know quite a few folks who fall into that camp, as well as many Democrats who had identically reverse sentiments about voting for Harris.
RE: Question for Trump Supporters
In response to Simian's first post:
I have to admit that I had to stop for a few minutes after the very first sentence to fully digest the absurdity of it.
A trick question, huh? Posing the most basic question to voters (what policies of a candidate do you agree with?) is a trick question? Wow. Are you saying that Trump voters aren't capable of articulating why they voted for the candidate? Or could it be because Trump supporters don't want to admit the REAL reasons they voted for him? So what you really mean is that anyone who does answer falls into a "trap" of having an honest, intelligent discussion. To this day, I have not had one with any Trump supporter, so I didn't expect that to start now. By the way, Lancelot didn't seem to think it was a trick question and had no problem answering it. And he and I rarely see eye to eye.
As I already said, if someone asked me what policies of Biden or Kamala I supported, I would gladly give them a dissertation on the subject.
Simian: "...HE says that some of the things Trump says are negotiating tactics and starting points rather than absolutist statements (like tariffs)."
Same old rationalizing for Trump so that he's never responsible for his own words. Is he like a 6 year boy that you don't take seriously? Give me a break. And it makes no sense at all. Negotiating tactics for what and with whom??? He has said it repeatedly and emphatically, and made it clear he absolutely intended to do it. He even gave specific numbers. If Kamala supporters tried to excuse her remarks in that way you would go ape. When you repeatedly make emphatic campaign promises reasonable voters have every right to take it at face value and not think he is playing infantile games. And even if your take is correct, it doesn't preclude people from saying whether or not they want to see it implemented.
Simian: "If you want people to answer your question, you might consider rephrasing it to something more specific."
My actual question gives them much more flexibility than your question, and gives them the freedom to address whatever specific issue they would like, rather than being forced to answer to the issue I choose. What is stopping anyone from singling out a specific policy they would like to talk about?
Or I could have asked the question this way: "What do you specifically expect Trump to do that will ease your economic hardship (what specific policies)?"
Simian: "Or you can start trying to answer this question for yourself, by watching the various interviews Trump conducted with radio hosts. They are surprisingly full of nuance and detail that you would never get at a Trump rally, and will give you some idea of the voting demographic blocks that Trump was reaching out to by appearing there."
That wouldn't give me the answer as to whether or not his voters want him to follow through with the polices. And it is not the same as hearing it out of the horse's mouth.
Yeah, I'm sure they were full of nuance and detail, hahaha. Every time I've seen him he is a babbling incoherent moron (such as the debate). I doubt very much he suddenly grew a brain for these interviews. Why didn't he make these points during the debate? Why did the sniveling coward refuse to have a second debate? Obviously, because he didn't want the world to see a black woman wipe the stage with him a second time. By many accounts his rallies go on for ever and he blabbers on about the most absurd nonsense. That would be the perfect time to get into this supposed nuance and detail.
So, can you give some of examples of this nuance and details? Does he go into any nuance and detail on affordable child care and healthcare, two very important issues for the middle class / working class that he refused to discuss during the debate?
"Maybe if Harris had taken the offer to visit Joe Rogan, her best opportunity to avoid sounding like a scripted wind-up toy or a drunk puppet"
This one really had my head spinning. Right, creditable presidential candidates should go on the podcast of a pathetic conspiracy theorist like him. I mean litter boxes for students. What a pathetic loser. It would have been a complete set up and he would have just tried to humiliate her. I would have lost all respect for her if she did. It is totally below the dignity of a Presidential candidate. She did go on FOX and CNN while Trump stayed in his safe little echo chamber of far right lunatics who toss him softball questions. Speaking of being a sprinted wind-up toy and drunken puppet, sounds like you're getting your candidates mixed up. At every Trump rally he repeated the same pathetic talking points and lies. It was just a constant replaying of his whining and bullying complaints. Never any solutions, just an endless cacophony of blaming the same tiresome scapegoats. He whines worse than a little child, but that's your fearless leader. And that's not to mentioned his nonsensical ramblings about Hannibal Lecter, the size of Arnold Palmer's penis, and mimicking giving oral sex to a microphone. Yeah, that's the man we need for president.
Simian: "Democrats spat in the face of the middle class..."
That's simply not true. Explain how Dems spat in their face with SPECIFIC examples. But Trump didn't? Trump is an entitled, spoiled cry baby who got everything he wanted from the time he was born. Daddy gave him at least $413 million dollars over the decades. At 3 years old he was receiving $200,000 a year in today's dollars. He went to college because Daddy fixed things with the dean. Daddy's money also kept him from serving in Vietnam while many middle class and poor kids were being drafted and dying. No entitlement there. By the time he graduated college he was getting the equivalent of $1,000,000 a year from Daddy. Daddy repeatedly bailed him out of bad business deals and bankruptcies. Trump has screwed the middle class his entire life. From screwing vendors out of their proper payments, which caused at least one to have to close, to scamming students with Trump University, and scamming donors with his scam of a charity. He has provided no specific examples of what he will do to help the middle class. But he has proposed policies that will hurt them. He is, however, proposing another round of absurd tax cuts for billionaires and mega-corporations. Tell me again how he connected with the middle class.
Kamala, on the other hand, talked about her modest middle class upbringing being raised by a single mom and how they sometimes struggled financially. She went to college without her rich daddy fixing things for her. As vice president under Biden they have done more for the middle and lower classes than Trump did, especially for Blacks. More on that in a moment.
I was going to respond to your comments about Musk, but this is already getting too long, so that will have to wait for a follow-up post.
Simian: "...I have spent enough of the last four years working as one of those middle class people to be as angry as they are."
...And what the hell do you think I am, a bleeping billionaire!!? I've spent the last 46 years (since I was 16) working as one of those middle class people and I am a hell of a lot more pissed off than you. The difference is that I direct my anger at the true culprits and don't let myself get suckered in by the greatest con ever perpetrated on the American people. Contrary to what I'm sure you think, I am not a Democrat and never have been. I have been an Independent for over 30 years. Believe it or not, I was initially a Republican. I voted for Reagan twice and the first Bush once. Then I came to my senses. Even though I studied economics in college, it still took me all that time to piece everything together, understand how economic theory plays out in real life, and realize what is REALLY going on in this country.
Do you really not understand that we are a plutocracy??? For decades now, this country has been run by billionaires and corporate interests. And I will be the first one to tell you that Democrats are also complicit in this. It is why I am an Independent. Democrats, though, at least make an effort to address some of the concerns of working Americans (the middle class). They understand that our economy flourishes best when we have a thriving middle class and this benefits everyone, including the plutocrats.
I have watched for those 46 years as income inequality (the biggest scourge to the working class) has gotten worse and worse due predominantly to Republican economic policies. But that is for another discussion. In a follow-up thread I would love to go over with you what each president since Bush I has done and how it has either benefited the billionaire / corporate plutocrats or the middle class. Getting back to Democrats "spitting in the face of the middle class", I find that particularly absurd considering that the Biden / Harris policies were specifically geared toward helping the middle class. Here is a sampling:
-In 2019 the child poverty rate under Trump was 12.6%. It dropped to 9.7% in 2020, due, I imagine to the huge bipartisan stimulus package. Then in 2021 under Biden/Harris it dropped to 5.2%, a 46% decline, due to Biden's expansion of the child tax credit for the working class and the poor. This was the lowest child poverty rate ever! It was life-changing for these people and made an almost immediate impact. It lifted millions of people out of poverty.
The next year the Reps refused to renew the tax credit and the child poverty rate shot right back up to 12.4%. Biden and the Dems fought like hell to keep the credit, to no avail. This was devastating to the poor and middle class. Tell me again how it is Dems who spat in the eye of the middle class.
-Factory construction surged under Biden/Harris. This is a policy specifically geared toward helping the working class (middle class). Trump constantly bullshitted the American public about boosting manufacturing, but he did basically nothing. It was Biden who actually did. He invested huge amounts of Federal money in manufacturing and factory construction jumped. Overall, more manufacturing jobs were created under Biden than under Trump: "Semi-conductor companies are spending billions building factories in Arizona, Ohio, Upstate NY and Texas. Manufacturing jobs are now at their highest level since the Great Recession" (Washington Post).
-Real wages (adjusted for inflation) now (under Biden) are higher than under Trump in 2019. This accounts for the fact that 2020 was an aberration due to Covid. Likewise, GDP is higher under Biden than under Trump (after adjusting for Covid). Both these gauges reflect the fact that the spending power of consumers is higher under Biden than Trump. Since consumer spending drives the economy and the middle and lower class do most of the spending, it is further indication that Biden/Harris policies helped the middle class.
-Black unemployment reached an all-time low under Biden (4.8%). And for the first time ever (2023), the share of Blacks Americans who were employed exceeded the share of Whites who were employed.
-In 2022, under Biden/Harris, the share of Americans with health insurance rose to an all-time high (92.1%), thanks to improvements Biden made to Obamacare. Yet another issue that is so important to the middle class. Conversely, Trump has offered nothing on healthcare...oh wait, I stand corrected. What did he say during the debate? He has "concepts of a plan?" You can't make this shit up.
-Biden / Harris proposed legislation that would provide free pre-K and ease the cost of child care, but Reps nixed both. Not only would both initiatives have significantly helped the working class, but it would have had a positive impact on the economy in general.
Explain to me again how it was Dems that spat in the face of the middle class!!!
And don't even get me started about a "spout printing money to throw from a blimp to the mob." Excluding Covid, Trump added more than twice as much to the national debt as Biden (4.8 trillion to 2.2 trillion). The vast majority of Trump's 4.8 trillion went to the super rich and mega-corporations, which does very little for the economy, while Biden's 2.2 trillion went mainly to the working class and the poor, which not only helps those groups, but also boosts the economy (again, consumer spending drives the economy). Clearly, if you take away the trillions of dollars Trump spent to pay off his billionaire cronies, there is plenty of money for programs that actually help both the working class and the country as a whole.
Thanks to your deflection, I didn't even get to touch on Trump's proposed policies. I'll have to start another thread to address that. It was important to first refute the ridiculous claim that Dems spat in the face of the middle class (working class).
In closing, I draw your attention to the following article in the Wall Street Journal, a staunchly conservative publication, from October 31st, right before the election:
https://www.wsj.com/economy/the-next-president-inherits-a-remarkable-economy-7be2d059?mod=Searchresults_pos2&page=1
The headline reads: "The Next President Inherits a Remarkable Economy"
The article starts off as follows:
"Whoever wins the White House next week will take office with no shortage of challenges, but at least one huge asset: an economy that is putting its peers to shame.
With another solid performance in the third quarter, the U.S. has grown 2.7% over the past year. It is outrunning every other major developed economy, not to mention its own historical growth rate.
More impressive than the rate of growth is its quality. This growth didn't come solely from using up finite supplies of labor and other resources, which could fuel inflation. Instead, it came from making people and businesses more productive.
This combination, if sustained, will be a wind at the back of the next president. Three of the past four newcomers to the White House took office in or around a recessioni (the exception was Donald Trump in 2017), which consumed much of their first-term agenda. The next president should be free of that burden.
Meanwhile, higher productivity growth should make the economy a bit less prone to inflation, more capable so sustaining budget deficits, and more likely to deliver strong wages. All would be a boon to President Trump or President Kamala Harris."
Again, this is from the conservative Wall Street Journal. I rest my fucking case!!

2021 Script Writer of the Year
lancellot
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RE: Question for Trump Supporters
Wow, that's a lot of stuff. Now, assuming all of that is 100% true. THEN....
Wait for it....
WHY DID SHE LOSE????
And since we've been told Trump is all things next to Satan and Hitler.
How could she lose to a guy like that?
And so badly....
RE: Question for Trump Supporters
Haha, perfect counterpunch from Lancellot.
🍌🐟 it seems from the start that you got all riled up about what you THINK I said, not what I actually said.
Posing the most basic question to voters (what policies of a candidate do you agree with?) is a trick question? <= no, that was not your question. You asked if Trump supporters want Trump to keep his promises. My response was in essence: WHICH promises, to who? Cause he made different promises to different folks, as I articulated above.
Every time I've seen him he is a babbling incoherent moron
Why did the sniveling coward refuse to have a second debate? <= Maybe one of the reasons you hate Trump so much is that he has gone the total opposite direction of you in some ways politically (started out as a Democrat). This suggests that you have chosen to look at a subset of things with the narrative reported by the media that Trump has said over the last 9 years or longer. I used to think the same, like 8 years ago, when I viscerally hated him. If you want another leftist puppet to win four years from now, you might want to check your hatred just a little. Trump btw passed on a second debate because it was 3 against 1, very much on her terms. This is probably what went down:
Melania: hey big boy, Kamala's on the line 4 u.
Donald: [sighs] alright, put here on (picks up the phone)
Kamala: Kamala Harris.
Donald: I know what your name is. What can I do for you?
Kamala: I was wondering if you'd like to debate me again. Our last debate was the bee's knees.
Donald: sure Kamala, let's do it. We've completed our agreement with CNN. I'd like our next debate to be on Fox.
Kamala: whaaaaaa? Fox News is fun by RACIST FASCIST NAZIS. Let's do it on CBS, where I can again have two moderators fact-checking you the entire time. 3 on 1 is how I like it. I learned that from Willie Brown.
Donald: hard pass. I've already done two debates on the Communist News Network. If you want to debate me again, come to Fox. I'll even let you double team me with Rosie O'Donnell.
Kamala: never. I'm so mad right now, I think I need to eat another Dalmatian puppy.
Trump: enjoy. Have a good once, Kamala. (Hangs up).
You get the idea. I'm pretty sure that is roughly what went down. Don't remember exactly what networks did what but the setting of both debates were very much engineered in Biden's and Kamala's favor. Fact checking was banned from the first debate, and Kamala somehow got it added back in for her kid gloves debate. She really likes gloves, especially when they are soft, like in Mice and Men. If you are going to double down on the insults, I have more of them to throw at Kamala, and I will make it funny too. I have plentyon Biden too.
You may continue with your name-calling rant now. I will challenge your statistics and logic afterwards.

2021 Script Writer of the Year
lancellot
Poet Rating
Rank: 47
Short Works Rating
Rank: 10
Novel Rating
Script Rating
Rank: 1
Review Stars
Rank: 30
RE: Question for Trump Supporters
Okay. I'm done. There are too many people losing their minds around the country. The election is over, and for me: No more politics for the rest of the year.
I hope everyone enjoys their family and friends over Thanksgiving and Christmas. Then have a Happy New Year.
RE: Question for Trump Supporters
Lancellot:
"WHY DID SHE LOSE????"
From the POV of one of those filthy, ignorant foreigners, the answer is blindingly obvious to the 96% of the world that is not American.
We just can't speak it, because that wouldn't be nice.
RE: Question for Trump Supporters
You can say it, but don't be surprised if we don't care, unless you are somehow providing new information.

