RE: Australia News
Message edited:
I'm not sure which of three choices is the correct one here, Lancellot. Either:
1) You do have a really low reading comprehension level; or
2) You don't read what is written in response at all; or
3) You do read it, but when the answer is one you don't like, you don't allow it to register that the question has been answered.
Let's put aside the fact that in so far as I have ever heard of, there has never been a single person in this country claim to be a "black supremacist", and while perhaps some aborigines hate white Australians, I've never heard that said either, by anyone. So if some do feel that way, it would seem they keep it to themselves. So your question is very much a hypothetical, in that to my knowledge it's never happened. If you have knowledge that it has (for example from some far-right video channel), then present it and we can discuss it.
Quite apart from that, I think the answer is obvious from what I said. If a person (black, white or any other ethnicity) gives a nazi salute, they will be jailed in Victoria, because it is the law there. In any other state, it's unlikely they would be, as there is no law against it. As far as any person giving a black power or some similar signal, again, they would not be, because there is no law against it in any state. I went to some trouble to explain why.
Does that clear up your confusion?
2021 Script Writer of the Year
lancellot
Poet Rating
Rank: 49
Short Works Rating
Rank: 11
Novel Rating
Script Rating
Rank: 2
Review Stars
Rank: 28
RE: Australia News
Yes, now it is clear. It is the 'act' of making the Nazi salute or what may appear to be the Nazi salute, and only that gesture or expression that gets any person arrested and convicted in that state.
And you think this is a good law?
RE: Australia News
I do, because it is an act designed to express and inspire hatred, racial discrimination, division and allegiance to the values of a particularly hideous ideology that has cost many millions of lives. And it has been repeatedly linked to instances of actual violence.
Incitement to riot is a criminal offence in Australia, and in certain circumstances, a nazi salute could be considered as such. This lends weight to the argument for making it a jailable offense.
2021 Script Writer of the Year
lancellot
Poet Rating
Rank: 49
Short Works Rating
Rank: 11
Novel Rating
Script Rating
Rank: 2
Review Stars
Rank: 28
RE: Australia News
Message edited:
Fascinating. CD, would seeing someone make a Nazi salute cause you to riot or commit an act of violence?
You see, here, it not the person making gesture or speech who is responsible for the actions, criminal or violent of another individual. Here each and man and woman are responsible for their own actions or choices.
Maybe, that is part of the difference between people who lean towards socialism or group identity, and those who believe in capitalism and individual liberty. Thank you for teaching me more about your nation. It is nice to hear more about other countries than America.
This is how it works here:
RE: Australia News
Firstly, Lancellot, I'm a little confused what point you were trying to make by posting that video. It's entirely unremarkable to me. Yes, we know that "here", meaning in your neck of the woods, violence and aggression is considered the answer to everything. It seems even octogenarians aren't immune.
From my perspective, she got what she rightly deserved. Do you have a different view?
I'm glad to hear the people are responsible for their own actions in the US. Unless, of course, they are a craven coward and hold the office of President.
I suggest you might want to consult a dictionary on the word "incite" - it's actually a verb, or "doing word"; in other words an action. So yes, people of limited intellect who incite others of limited intellect to become violent should be held accountable.
I'm not a socialist, nor do I have a group identity, as I don't align myself with any clique or niche.
Further, I take issue with your suggestion that the majority those of your nationality really enjoy any sort of liberty. They are not free to go about their lives without the likelihood of being accosted or verbally abused. They are not free to go about their lives without the fear of being gunned down by some maniac who's had a bad day. They're not free to send their children to school in the reasonable expectation they'll come home. They're not free to assume that the rich and powerful will be expected to carry the weight of their social responsibility. They are not free to legally immigrate and set up home in a neighbourhood without some racist jerks accusing them of being a murderer or rapist or eating their pets.
Were Martin Luther King and Rosa Parks wasting their time fighting for their peoples' freedom to be treated as equals, or has freedom only become universal there in the past 60 years, and before that it wasn't the land of the free?
Well, you can keep your freedom. I'll happily remain in my fettered, emasculated, oppressive society where people are able to believe what they want, worship who they want (or not), go about their business without fear of becoming the latest mass-shooting statistic, and not be confronted by swastika-waving imbeciles performing nazi-salutes, mentally disturbed people carrying deadly weapons, pathetic vigilante mobs dressed in camouflage gear, armed with AR-15s on the street corner, and people generally inciting hatred and unrest in any way they can.
I'll take my chances in a country where election results are honoured by all sides, and elections are conducted peacefully, without fear and intimidation.
And I'll settle for a nation that chooses to pass such laws, if required, as help to maintain that environment.
Sucks not to be free.
2021 Script Writer of the Year
lancellot
Poet Rating
Rank: 49
Short Works Rating
Rank: 11
Novel Rating
Script Rating
Rank: 2
Review Stars
Rank: 28
RE: Australia News
Well, I don't think you understand what liberty is. But whatever. And I think there is much you don't know about the Republican Martin Luther King, and Rosa Parks (and her staged protest).
Oh Well. Our nations are different and we each like our country as is. That's my point. Your nation has laws and way that seem strange to me, but I respect your people's right to live as they wish. Why can't you do the same for Americans?
RE: Australia News
I take it you believe liberty applies only to people who want violence and intimidation, not those who want the freedom of peace, safety and security.
I'm always up for learning new things. What is it you would like me to know about King and Parks that you believe I don't?
Do you think your people really want to live in the society I described? That would be very odd. I don't think they do -- at least not the majority.
RE: Australia News
No, you don't 'respect' it, Lance. If you did, you wouldn't bring it up in this manner. It's perfectly fine for you not to respect it. You don't have to. Given your love of liberty, I have never understood why you think, on a forum which exist for the very purpose of discussing politics, the rest of us must 'respect' anything we don't agree with.
We might be wrong. You might argue why we are wrong as we might argue that you are wrong. Perhaps you might be happier if everyone ended all their comments with, 'Oh, but I am just curious, I respect your country'? I don't think so.
What you don't seem to understand is, we don't mind discussing politics on a politics thread. You don't have to 'respect' our nations' laws at all. If you find something you don't agree with about my nation, (I won't speak for Craig) you are absolutely free as a bird to post about it. I might argue with you, I might explain where your dodgy video hasn't quite got the facts right, but I am never, ever going to whine that you don't 'respect' my country. I don't expect you to on an internet forum discussion about politics. It's an opportunity to air these thoughts, have these discussions.
Don't lie about 'respect'. I have far more time for honesty on a forum like this. You aren't in my country. I am not in yours. Here, now, on this forum, we are in a no man's land. International waters, if you will. If we can't say it here, we can't say it anywhere.
I don't ask for your feigned 'respect' of my nation's laws and customs. I, personally,am glad of the interest and opportunity to chat about it. The fact I may disagree with you doesn't mean I don't think you should be asking the question, or agreeing with my answer.
So let's stop with the pretence of respect and carry on with what is proving to be an interesting discussion, shall we?
RE: Australia News
Fascinating...
I can add, as someone who has spent twelve good years living in Australia, that I believe it is today a far more pleasant place to live than the USA. No race-based riots. Very few mass shootings. No storming of the seat of government because some deranged sourpuss doesn't like the election result. No major political leader proclaiming a major goal is retribution.
I have never lived in the USA, but those things all happened there, right?
BTW do you not have ANY hate speech laws?
RE: Australia News
I'm amused to see CD getting so excited with his stereotypes of Americans.
I'm glad to hear the people are responsible for their own actions in the US. Unless, of course, they are a craven coward and hold the office of President.
Biden currently holds that office, and I agree with you. He should have bowed out earlier and should have straight-up resigned the Presidency (not just the race) to give Kamala a real chance. Wise words, CD.
[Americans] are not free to go about their lives without the fear of being gunned down by some maniac who's had a bad day.
True of some areas I have lived recently. I have had guns in my face and have feared for my life more than once. If you stay well away from poor neighborhoods of a certain race, you will generally be just fine. Whites and Asians don't tend to have this problem.
They [Americans] are not free to send their children to school in the reasonable expectation they'll come home.
That's a bunch of fearmongering bullcrap. We discussed this a couple years ago, and I presented evidence that kids had roughly a 50x higher chance of being killed per hour when outside school vs. inside school. Kids are at much higher risk of abuse and sexual assault when they are at home, or (if in bad areas) doing drugs and joining gangs outside school. They might make some of those peer connections in public schools though.
[Americans] are not free to assume that the rich and powerful will be expected to carry the weight of their social responsibility.
Yeah, and they might even stiff vendors. Trump has done this. Allegedly, now so has Kamala. Stiffing creditors is indeed a problem in the US. In businesses though, it is pretty small as a general trend. It is more of a statistical problem with private citizens buying things they can't afford, which is why we have credit scores.
IDK the best way to go about comparing quality of life in Australia vs. America, so maybe you'd like to provide some tangible benchmarks? Keeping in mind that most Australians are pasty white, so you might be better off comparing your country to US states like Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine or South Dakota where our crime stats might be lower than yours. This is a big reason why crapping on America as a whole doesn't make much sense. We have a lot of diversity and variation between states.
If you really want to stump an American, ask them what freedom is for.
1 -2- 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Martin Luther King Assassination
Part of the Catherine Remembers series
Part of the Catherine Remembers series
Pays:
10 points. and 52 member cents
Southbound, Part Two.
An overnight stay in Jorvik, and continuing south.
An overnight stay in Jorvik, and continuing south.
Pays:
10 points. and 1.15 member dollars