RE: Are we there yet?
Harambe, how do we know the firings are unjustified?
Really?
Perhaps you should consider the metaphor of the chainsaw versus the scalpel. Whole teams, whole organisations had their members fired. Do you think that everybody fired was failing in their job?
RE: Are we there yet?
An individual could be highly effective in their role, but if you zoom out far enough, the need for that role might be obviated by some other thing. In large systems, efficiency and effectiveness are often at odds, due to scaling conflicts. An ant might be faster than all the other ants at moving grains of sand, but if it is moving sand away from the anthill the rest of the ants are building, it might be doing more harm than good, but have no idea. Or the entire ant colony might have selected a perfect location in moist wood, which happens to be in the wall of a house, and they don't realize that this perfect habitat will attract the attention of an exterminator.
Craig shared an interesting article, I think by Wired, which I will try to digest and respond to later. The article raises some good points. Young people in particular often confuse efficiency with effectiveness.
RE: Are we there yet?
And by the way, the analogies I shared above could be applicable both to the government department themselves as well as the auditors. There is a cost and a benefit to having federal workers and getting rid of them. I think it is good that the Trump administration is asking the questions whether they are really needed or not. And I don't have any particular sympathy for federal workers who are fired, because they will collect all sorts of benefits and a lot of of them are accepting wildly generous buyout packages, or so I am told, by a friend of mine who is a nuclear engineer and works for the government. Whether firing/laying off all these people is a good idea as a separate question. However, anyone who says that we don't need to drastically cut costs in our government is insane.
CD Richards
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RE: Are we there yet?
If you think the best way to reduce foreign debt is by axing federal employees, you could start by sacking those who genuinely perform no useful function -- the entire current White House staff.
Still waiting for you to nominate which angle you want the DOGE circus examined from, Harambe. I'm quite serious when I say there are so many legitimate objections, it's impossible to tackle them all at once.
RE: Are we there yet?
Harambe, I truly wonder whether your attitude would be the same if it was you and your colleagues who just got fired at a moment's notice. You'd all just gather up your stuff and leave the office thinking "Well this is for the greater good."
It's not so much that things were cut and people were fired, it's the brutality of it and the symbolism of Musk wielding the chainsaw says it all.
It seems from afar that cruelty is a prime feature of everything Trump does.
RE: Are we there yet?
For the record...
Since Trump took office:
Dow: DOWN 13.8%
Nasdaq: DOWN 20.5%
S&P: DOWN 15.5%
RE: Are we there yet?
Message edited:
I don't think anyone is arguing that Trump's actions have been good for the markets, at least as of today. Government debt and foreign debt are not the same thing. 3/4 of US debt is owed to its own citizens.
I do not work for the US government and have no intention of working for them. I really don't give two craps about all the sob stories, unless you would like to share specific ones. Government workers always take this risk between administrations.They are paid quite well on average, especially when benefits are considered. And the rate of firing of federal workers is still far below the natural attrition rate.
If you want to go after a real injustice, let's talk about all the contractors and church workers who were not paid for work that they already did supporting refugees.
CD Richards
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RE: Are we there yet?
Well, it seems that by default Harambe has affirmed I’ve met my obligation to "put up or shut up", so on to the next topic.
In light of Lancellot’s claim that no administration has done anything about debt prior to Trump, I thought I’d do a little digging, with the help of chatgpt.
Here is a list of the average percentage increase in national debt per term for each president from Reagan to Biden (average used because some presidents served two terms):
Ronald Reagan (R) 104%
George HW Bush (R) 54%
George W Bush (R) 52.5%
Donald Trump (R) 37%
Barack Obama (D) 35%
Joe Biden (D) 28%
Bill Clinton (D) 16%
Some interesting highlights:
- Note the party affiliations of the top 4 and the bottom 3 presidents, respectively. Republicans seem abysmal at managing debt.
- The highest increase in debt (by far, at almost double the closest rival) just happened to come under the term of the president who was a staunch advocate of trickle-down doodoo. Coincidence?
- National debt increased markedly slower under Joe Biden than Donald Trump. Surprise!
DOGE’s current estimate for saving in the fiscal year 2026 has now come down from the ridiculously nonsensical $2 trillion to $150 billion (that’s a 92.5% "adjustment" downwards, absolutely astounding accuracy!) Of course, with the staff reductions in some departments, notably the IRS, taken into account, these savings are likely to be largely offset by losses in revenue, so the real savings could well be far less.
In less than four months since Trump was elected for his second term, more than $11 trillion has been wiped from the US stock market, thanks to the bungling and ineptitude of Trump and Musk and the chaos it has caused. So, if you are concerned about less than $150 billion dollars in potential savings for all the stress and suffering it will cause, how concerned are you about an $11 trillion dollar loss to US businesses, mom&dad investors and retirement savings of average Americans?
You want to know the best course of action to fix it? Impeach Trump, as even some Republicans are demanding. Remove him from office. Install someone who has a clue about how to manage a country’s finances, instead of someone who has bankrupted six businesses, including a casino (how does anyone bankrupt a casino? It’s a veritable licence to make money). Preferably a Democrat, since they seem to be better economic managers.
RE: Are we there yet?
You want to know the best course of action to fix it? Impeach Trump, as even some Republicans are demanding. Remove him from office. Install someone who has a clue about how to manage a country’s finances, instead of someone who has bankrupted six businesses, including a casino (how does anyone bankrupt a casino? It’s a veritable license to make money). Preferably a Democrat, since they seem to be better economic managers.
Again, all we hear is: Impeach Trump, Get rid of Trump. First you show us a stat that shows the debt increased with all the Presidents. Never went down.
WHERE IS THE SOLUTION????
Stop just hating of Trump and the GOP. Tell us how fix the clear and present danger Steve highlighted.
What is the answer??? You don't like what Trump is doing, then what should he do? What is the solution? Give a real answer.
RE: Are we there yet?
Even Trump knows the economy does better under the Democrats. Here's a quote from 2004.
These days, Donald Trump may be the personification of the Republican id, but that wasn't always the case. Back in 2004, fresh off the success of The Apprentice, and promoting his new book, Trump: How to Get Rich, The Donald discussed his political views with Wolf Blitzer on CNN.
When the 2004 election came up, Trump said he identified "more as a Democrat." Blitzer asked him to clarify if he meant he was socially liberal. Trump replied: "I've been around a long time. And it just seems the economy does better under the Democrats than under Republicans." In the same interview, Trump also dodged questions about whether the success of The Apprentice made him think about getting into politics.
https://theweek.com/speedreads/561052/trump-2004the-economy-does-better-under-democrats
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