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When will the final straw fall?Thread Started December 16 at 3:49PM
<< Thread Modifed December 16 at 3:50PM >>
from a Senator Kamala Harris newsletter e-mail this morning:
"If you missed it this morning, policy analysts at the Centers for Disease Control
and Prevention were told by the White House that the following words or
phrases are now "forbidden" from being used:
Can there be any question left that Trump despises the Age of Enlightenment?
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Reply on January 17, 2018 12:38 PM
Howdy Craig, you say:
It's a shame there isn't a vaccination for CSD (conspiracy theory disease).
There is one, it's called the Holy Bible.
It inoculates mankind with the antibody of Truth, or what Jesus called the Holy Spirit of Truth, that destroys that nasty antigen known as diabolos Satanas. **
This"acquired immunity" gives a man resistance to becoming a slave to the Pharaoh of this world, so he can live out his created destiny as an agent to The King in the Kingdom of God. ( Which starts right here , right NOW). (Romans 12: 1-2)*
But I do hear there is a vaccine for BAD
(bad acronym disease) lol.
It's a bit of a scary place to be, speaking of "your truth versus my truth". The Bible tells us there is ONE Truth. We may have different understandings of what truth is. Maybe that is what you meant.
I am a bit confused by your love of a certain past president, who from one side of his mouth, ( mostly as a political platform, called himself a Christian, but from the other side of his mouth calls himself a Moslem.( Especially while outside the country) And then his louder mouth...
His actions, rhetoric (written and spoken), and his policies and deeds tended to be much more antagonistic towards Christian ideology , and much friendlier towards Moslem and Islamic ideology. I would think this might set off some TRUTH bells and whistles...But as you say, "you have your truth, and I have mine". I'll point out that there is also THE TRUTH. But , I'll just stop there.
Here's another interesting question:.
If somebody were to come out and call the car that I drive "a shit hole" ( which it is), would THAT be a racist statement? I guess, maybe only if a white person said this to me, and I was a black man.
One more point, idk if anyone else has seen the latest work of James O'Keefe from project veritas, about "shadow banning"on Facebook and Twitter. I figured out a few years back that this exact thing was happening, and that is why I left FB all together.
But hopefully the administrator / mediator on this site has the integrity to not participate in these kinds of censorship tactics. Even despite certain peoples' propensity to overtly call for, or at least threaten a call for censorship...on a writing site.
Much more coming , I am sure.
Craig ,( or anyone else interested) this is an interesting little blurb on the Aramaic form of the word devil that suggests the devil to be some kind of"eater", which would go pretty well with C.S Lewis'masterpiece "The Screwtape letters".
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Romans 12:1-2 KJV
The "Brotherhood of the Truthseeker" and the elusive "sword of Truth" in the Bible-
We all have our own concept of what we think truth is. Some of us examine truth much harder than others. Some base their perception of truth solely on science.
Although this is a pretty noble pursuit, after all TRUTH IS TRUTH, there are still many theological aspects of truth, that for reasons that I've gone over with ad nauseum with many atheist types, that "science" will NEVER, EVER be able to prove or disprove.
I consider any honest fellow Truthseeker a Brother regardless of their "religion", because Truth is Truth, and we all have differing levels of the understanding of it. (This is the reason I think that C.S Lewis said something like, "Sometimes an atheist can unknowingly be closer to God than some 'christians' are".... paraphrased from his book 'mere christianity').
But what do I do when my Truthseeking understanding of truth clashes with my Brother's understanding of truth on ANY issue?
Well I believe one of four things should happen:
1) We can agree to disagree, feeding the fire to prove the other Truthseeker wrong. A very healthy, "iron of Truth sharpening the iron of truth". ### please see the attached interesting ( I think ) small Bible study on the application of this proverb to this instance, as it pertains to "the Truthseeker's Brotherhood"
2) You can convince ME that your understanding of truth is correct given the evidence.
3) I can convince YOU
that my understanding of truth is correct given the evidence.
4) We could BOTH be incorrect.
Of course, when you introduce emotion and pride to the issue, the finding of TRUTH gets sidetracked and the "Truthseeking Brotherhood" gets fractured.
We all suffer from pride. JESUS despised pride probably because it IS the greatest sin.
God knows, I battle it all the time and I have to repent for it everyday, and praise and thanks to Jesus that His blood covers THAT, and all my other sins!
As far as emotion goes, in the pursuit of TRUTH maybe we all just need thicker skin.
Now to the "Truthseekers brotherhood" as it seems to present itself according to
Proverbs 27:17 KJV:
"Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend."
Now, looking up the definition of countenance:
1. a person's face or facial expression. 2. support.
1. admit as acceptable or possible.
the noun definitions definitely fit this verse, but it is the verb (action) definition of the word that really brings this verse to life:
"admitting something as either acceptable or possible" certainly fits into the context of a Truthseeker who is examining something as to its Truthfulness.
With this, THINKING that I could easily connect all of this to a Bible verse that uses the phrase
" The sword of truth" in regards to the proverb of iron sharpening iron, to support my theory of the "Truthseekers Brotherhood" BUT ...ALAS...
I found that (to the best of my knowledge) that NO such verse exists, AND that to get THERE, it requires another interesting STEP to make that connection.
For instance in ephesians ch. 6 the sword in "the armor of God " is referred to as the Spirit (and ALSO God's word) and the belt is referred to as truth.
Ephesians 6:14 NIV
Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist...
Ephesians 6:17 NASB
And take the helmet of salvation , and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
This "truth" belt then ,would probably "hold" the HOLY Spirit sword ...
( I'm assuming that Roman soldiers used their belts in this way somehow, in the same way that WE now often use a belt to HOLD a weapon ) ...this weapon being the Holy Spirit that Jesus in John 16:13 calls the Spirit of Truth.
John 16:13 NIV
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth.
Or in John 15:26 NASB
"When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me,
Is this "extra step" to make the connection
(From the sword of the Spirit to the Spirit of Truth, rather than a direct "sword of truth" ) is THIS God's way of saying to us that moReal TRUTH ONLY comes to be "held" by us through the HOLY Spirit ( AND through God's Word) which only comes through HIM?
God's word is so incredible!
Reply on January 17, 2018 02:08 PM
Umm, I think there's a bit of a difference between someone calling your car a shithole, and your entire country a shithole, don't you?
As for Obama's Muslim sympathies, well ...
Let's look at some of the policies in some countries governed by the more extreme end of Islam, shall we?
Anti-vaccine/conventional medicine to the point of restricting its availability to the populace.
Anti-science to the point of desiring its citizens to live in the dark ages of black magic and leeches for medicine.
Desirous of one religion to be adhered to and to form the basis of government to the exclusion/detriment of others
Active dislike of those of another colour/creed, and strong desire to keep 'them' out of the country.
Insistence on strict observance of religious protocols by all members of the population, regardless of their OWN religious preferences...
Shall I go on? I'm wondering which presidential campaign this most closely resembles. Funny thing, I'm sure you'll not be surprised to hear I don't think it is Obama's.
Why do you think he attacked Christian doctrine? Because he recognised that your country is multi-religious, and paid some attention to other faiths? Because he 'allowed' people of the same sex to marry under law (strictly prohibited in Islam, so if some get their way, that would be another similarity)?
Obama WASN'T a Moslem. He was trying to acknowledge the largest growing faith in the world as a faith, as opposed to simply the collection of evil terrorists the media thinks we should see it as.
You can ignore it, you can decry it, you can attempt to kick it out of the country, but, like Christianity, it has a lot of followers, and antagonism is only going to make it stronger.
And where has antagonism got us? Maybe, he was trying another approach, after he tried bombing the crap out of Muslim countries and that made things worse.
But you know, with your anti-vaccine extremist Islam style agenda, maybe you are just in the religious closet yourself. Sure seeing a lot more similarities between you and the militant Imams than Obama, with your 'one truth', 'one true god' 'all else is Luciferian evil' nonsense.
Just because you haven't said you want us all dead, doesn't make you so much different.
Reply on January 17, 2018 07:01 PM
Sorry, but I need to be brief. Perhaps at some later point I can consider your post in more detail, although I'm not sure there's enough common ground in our thinking to have much of a sensible discussion.
The devil is not an "eater", he is, like his nemesis, an invention. Both are designed to scare people into subservience. You spoke about this in your post (not sure if it was on this thread or the other one). Why give up one form of servitude for another? And to divide people. For the life of me, I don't understand why it appears to be the explicit aim of nearly all religions to create division and hostility between people. That's mostly what they are about - a couple of Eastern religions, like Buddhism and Jainism being possible exceptions. I don't know for certain, as I'm not informed enough about them to judge.
That's all I've got time for, for now.
Reply on January 18, 2018 06:19 AM
I think Craig probably has a point about when thinking is too different to have common ground. It can lead one to abrupt responses, like my own.
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Reply on January 18, 2018 10:16 AM << Modifed January 18 at 6:13PM >>
You hit on the point that I was making...What is the truth?...what you believe and what I believe is different in ways I find of value to ME...The words and messages of the Bible can only mean ONE thing...but what Is that ONE thing?...we as humans must find the truth...In my studies, I think I'm on the right track, obviously you believe the same...I choose not to argue that point, simply to say, I will not even begin to speak what you just posted, because I didn't read past your first few words.
However, if you care to ask me a specific question, I will be happy to answer..but please don't assume either of us knows it all...if that were true, I wouldn't be studying the Bible even to today.
Yet for me the more I study the more I begin to see what it is that is being said, from the old testament through-out the new...its the words of scripture that's important to me in my life, not trying to prove what is true to someone else...Jehovah God, wants to know MY heart, and how I am responding to what is being told to me...not by you, but by those that were inspired to write God's word.
I happen to feel through sincere prayer, and a Faith that what I am learning is what God wants to me to know, I must continue on the path I have been following for the past 50 years.
I wish you well also, and do not for a moment intend to change your mind as to what you believe the truth is...you see, I repeat, no one knows it all...but so far I'm content with my relationship with Almighty God Jehovah and what I get from the reading of His word.
Just Some Thoughts!
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Reply on January 19, 2018 11:58 AM
You are so right that our unchangeable perception of truth is caused by our perception. To that, I would add that our perception is most greatly influenced, or shaped by our perspective.
One reason that we like to write is to inspire, and try to influence or persuade people. To this end, I admit that I am guilty. I am trying to inspire or persuade you to change your perspective. I know that you know this, Emma , but I will say it anyways for the benefit of others, that I am NOT forcing my will onto your will. ( As long as your subconscious mind is able to filter out the subliminal programming that I have embedded into my words.... Damn, I just blew my cover! lol)
A few more points.
"Unlike you, I don't think communism is an awful thing. Because I've studied it. A lot. I'm not referring to communist dictatorships, I'm referring to collective communism. Do I think that is what is happening in China, or what did happen in Russia, or Cuba? No. But communism isn't really about the one-party rule those places made it into. "
I do not deny what you think about those who rule the country, but I don't think it has anything to do with godless luciferians. I think it is just people being people. Scum rises as much as cream. And it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference if they were with your god, or anyone else's, they'd still do what they do, because that's what they do. It's people that screw it up every time, no matter what you believe. And if there really were a god, he wouldn't have designed us to be such idiots. "
I don't think that it is that God
designed us to "be such idiots" , but rather we people being people "ate of the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil", that allowed us- or at least the more brazen of us - to ultimately think we ARE, or can become "gods", or at least pridefully even think we are morally superior to God.
I think I've mentioned the following before in this regard. The ONLY truly Benevolent leader that ever would exist AND be able to lead and properly administer what you would deem a truly functional collective or communal society , would and WILL be Jesus Christ. (Communism.... another. fine example of Satan perverting God's perfection).
Please forgive my presumptiveness Emma , but I think I can gather from what you have written, here and in the past, that you are in fact a person who HAS sought the Lord, and for whatever reason, you feel you haven't really connected with Him yet. I say this with great humbleness, because we ALL are sinners, and we all have our demons that we battle and a land mine filled path to walk ( literally for some lol). ... I for one, have felt very similar kinds of rejection or seeming apathy from God for much of my life. But it could be that when you knocked on the door as Jesus said:
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Matthew 7:7-8 KJV
It probably was that the answer that He gave, or the way that He answered was, for whatever reason, outside of your ability to, or willingness to perceive it at the time. Perhaps you weren't really ready at the time, and perhaps you are still not ready. But , that doesn't mean that we can't or shouldn't " keep on a 'knocking" . Praise God, He always is the same and NEVER changes. You can bank on that. My prayers are with you my friend. ***.
Mrs M, When you say,
"I do not believe all people have to be the same...all I would like for the world, is that people be left alone to serve whatever God they wish, and those that do not serve any also be left alone. "
To this I would wholeheartedly agree. But, as I pointed out to Emma, I would add the caveat of: "as long as YOUR serving your god does not impinge upon MY , or any other man's freewill." Unfortunately Luciferians* are the biggest offenders of this noble doctrine. ( Which is the same as the most glorious doctrine of God -. Not forcing His will physically onto any human's freewill**)
"No I wasn't taking about you, it was DJ, who made that comment, concerning my beliefs, that's why I say even those that call themselves Christian can differ in their understanding of scripture... "
Well,that is for sure.
You then say,
"The words live and let live really apply in my way of thinking...where religion is concerned...we'd all be happier... "
This "live and let live", way of thinking I would agree is fantastic. But what exactly does this mean Victoria? If you are talking about physical life on this plane, then of course , (those Luciferians excepted,...See footnote) it Is a very Christian and just a plain old mankind friendly position , or doctrine to follow. But on a spiritual plane, is this idea what Jesus was about? Or even what he taught?
When Jesus told us our duty:.
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.
Luke 24:45-48 KJV
Sure Jesus wants us ALL to be happier, as you say. But is that ALL He was about? Or, did he talk constantly about building His Kingdom? Starting right here and right now.
Here is an area we can ALL USE a lot of education in , myself included. It is an area that we as humans, including Christians love burying our heads in the comforting sand to avoid. Thank the Lord and His ongoing Kingdom, that there are many of His obedient people out there who are willing to bring this all to light. This is in regards to the practicing Luciferians.
It doesn't really matter what a person believes in regards to whether what these Luciferians believe in is actually true, or not. What DOES matter is that these most powerful people who have all of the money in the world at their disposal, DO believe in the precepts of Luciferianism. THIS is where their serving of their god, most definitively infringes upon our free will. ( No matter WHAT we may believe). Here is the why and the how, in its most simple and easy to digest nutshell:.
These Luciferians believe that they are serving their "Lord Lucifer" and communing with him and gaining more power through him by killing, ritualistically torturing/and or raping innocent humans. The more innocent , the more power they believe it gives them. ( Maybe that sheds some light on the abortion issue, as well as the Human trafficking issue... Does this explain why the Powers that be are so adamant about keeping illegal, undocumented people in America? To keep giving them an untraceable source for human trafficking? ). The old rabbit hole is much deeper and much, much darker than even what I say. These things all go on far, far ,far more than we even recognize. The Luciferians really do believe that in some metaphysical way, they are empowered by and channel the energy of death to their Lord Lucifer. Notice the presence of Luciferian monuments that are always lurking somewhere quite close to any mass burial site , or anywhere massive deaths have occurred.
I really don't expect many to believe this fact or even to look into it. But I put this into your awareness in the hopes that someday, when we see or experience the growing Luciferianism imposing more and more onto our freewill, that we will remember to, at the very least , keep our Bibles handy. Of course, there is also a very insidious agenda afoot that makes it even harder for us to even notice the Luciferian/trans- human agenda pushed upon mankind. But that's a whole other diatribe that I have probably posted several times over in various forms.
This is a short aside to address the likes of someone who might think somehow that they are morally superior to God because they believe that the God of the Old Testament was morally repugnant. ( Based on what standard, I do not know...Perhaps it is an unrecognized remnant of God living inside 1 John chapter 4, or just the law etched upon everyone's heart Romans 2:15) This "moral outrage" because God Himself, or working intimately with His people "the Israelites", He wiped out certain tribes of people. Again, I haven't studied it thoroughly enough to say it was always the case, (after all, we live in a world of war , where "to the Victor belongs the spoils" but it is quite clear that much of the tribe" killing of the various "ites" were actually because they were not Human beings at all, but some form of perverted hybrid humanoid creatures born from the fallen angels messing with man's DNA as mentioned in Genesis chapter 6.
Even in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, I've heard it taught by some Biblical scholars that I respect that it was perverse "angelic " creatures wanting to have sex with God's angels ( the story even says this) that lead to its destruction. Oftentimes, if we peek under the hood of the text and look at the original Greek or Hebrew text, there is WAY more there than meets the eye. But there I go again... I'm teaching. Guilty as charged I guess.
Could it be?, that the very narrative of Abraham bargaining with the Lord God to spare the entire town if even as few as 10 righteous were found in it ,was put there for the purpose of showing God's propensity to showing Grace upon men, even at the cost of not destroying the unrighteous. Not to mention, how the fact that God STILL destroyed them speaks to the level of the iniquity that was present there.
The power of two tiny words- (Why I love Psalm 13)
I have listened to many pastors and preachers preach and teach on the powerful nature of two simple words in the Bible. Those two words being "But God ... ". Then, they quite eloquently tell us of the great faith building power in those two words. This idea is all very true and quite compelling and powerful. But US, being reborn as Sons of God , born gloriously in HIS image, also have two other divine, wonder working powerfully faith building words spelled out for us in the Bible. Those two words being , "But I".Their transformative power beautifully illustrated in Psalm 13.
We all have fears. We all have fears we don't even know that we have. We all have fears deep in the deepest of our hearts that we know God can't even heal. We all have Sins that we despise. Some sins that we don't even know we have. Some sins that we sense, deep in the deepest of our hearts that God can never forgive. We all even have sins that we know God's Word says are sins, but we have a hard time believing it. We all have things about our personalities that we hate. Some faults that we don't even know we have. Some of them that we know in the deepest of our hearts that God can never change. These fears, sins and faults, for any one of us, are no different than everyone else's fears sins and faults anywhere on this planet . The only real difference, for any Son of God, being what I think is shown to us so wisely in Psalm 13. When David, right after lamenting how God seems to hide His face from him and how he wrestles with his own thoughts of his fears, sins and his faults , and asks the Lord "How long will my enemy triumph over me?" He then turns to the power, and goes on to say those heart turning, contrite, submitting, non prideful, two power filled and wise words : " but I"... : Psalm 13.5-6.NIV ...But I trust in your unfailing love; my heart rejoices in your salvation. I will sing the Lord praise, for he has been good to me. Its very interesting I think , and no accident, that the very next verse, Psalm 14:1, says: " The fool says in his heart, there is no God". Almost in a quite stark illustration of the juxtaposition of the two simple choices that we can decide to make in our lives. God's LIVING Word Is so AMAZING!
It's when we have this daily decision to have faith in the power of the Lord, despite our own numerous imperfections. When we decide, that Because, "God has been good to me", then, we can decide that It is the daily reliance on HIM that God so desperately desires from us. It is in THIS that we find one day suddenly, that we no longer have some of those fears. We discover one day that we don't have some of those sins. We find one day that we don't have some of those personality faults. We find one day that we can suddenly see those hidden fears. We can actually see those hidden faults. We can actually see those hidden sins. And then, praise God, one day... we also find that those sins that we knew God couldn't forgive, those fears we knew God couldn't heal, those personality traits that we knew God couldn't fix... suddenly we know deep in our deepest of hearts that God CAN, and God WILL someday do ALL of those things in our lives. This is the path to righteousness that we inherit as the "Sons of God" . It IS "The Kingdom of God" that starts right here, and right now on Earth.
And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2:6-7 NIV
Reply on January 19, 2018 01:33 PM << Modifed January 19 at 1:38PM >>
DJ, I know you know my history on this. I did look, I looked for a long time before I realised I was looking for the proverbial black cat in a dark room that was not, in fact, there. And all you write here only strengthens my knowledge that the black cat in the instance of a creator-god was an invention of a frustrated humanity's desire to explain things, and also to control.
I know it is unwitting, and entirely innocent, but so much of your writing smacks of a wish to bend others to your will, in short to control them to make the world as you would like it. What better way to do it than by using a deity who cannot be seen, and therefore cannot be challenged. So much can be attributed to the unseen, and so much can be claimed or disclaimed in his name.
And how much to suit ourselves. 'Big Pharma' is an evil thing, right up until it unmistakeably saves the life of you or a loved one. Then it becomes a gift from god, does it not? 'It's a miracle' brought about by years of study and research. My sister is alive today because 'Big Pharma' invented incubators, without which millions of premature babies perished. In your earlier post, you confused stem cell research with vaccines when mentioning cells from aborted foetuses. Actually, stem cells can be and are being harvested from living tissue immediately after a baby is born by banking the blood from the umbilical cord. Stem cells have been used in 1 million transplants worldwide and are being investigated in over 5,000 clinical trials13. Doctors and scientists believe that cord blood stem cells are one of the cornerstones of regenerative medicine and may soon offer therapies for many incurable diseases, such as Parkinson?s, Alzheimer?s and diabetes.
All this helps along the 'miracle' of survival against the odds. Jesus in your bible was a healer of the sick. Do you really think he'd be so against the modern healers of the sick?
So some make money from healing the sick today? Seems a bit un - American to be against making a fast buck, and as a non-American you know I don't approve of your lack of proper affordable healthcare, but that doesn't mean those pioneers of life-saving treatment were all in it for a quick buck. Early vaccinations were born out of desperation to save those suffering and dying. Didn't your Jesus supposedly do that?
So, what is the real problem, here? Is it that treatment is available to those who may be morally undeserving in the eyes of some? That I, as an atheist, have as much access to this as any god-fearing person?
I wonder how far you'd really go. If you, or your loved ones were in a serious car accident, would you refuse treatment because 'Big Pharma' was providing it? Even if it meant the difference between life and certain death? What if you got to the 'other side' and your god was there, and he said, 'you idiot. I gave those skills to those people to help you, and you refused'?
See, therein lies the problem. There's always more than one way of viewing the actions of people in relation to your god, and there's nothing in the bible on this particular issue which really supports the idea that modern medicine is against your god's will.
To be honest, if you really and truly believed all that 'only needing god' stuff, you wouldn't be talking to us now on this creation of sinful man, you'd be out in the wilderness. You're a man of god, why do you need anything else? Surely he'll provide for you, eh?
Could it be because, in your heart of hearts, you know he won't, really, no matter how devout you are? You asked me, when I said what it would take for me to believe, 'you can't believe god works like that', or words to that effect. Of course I don't, because I don't believe he even exists. But how god works is something none of you believers seem able to agree on, despite your assertion of the apparent clarity of the bible.
Look at you and Mrs Major now, both clearly scholars of the bible, both obviously believers, yet both with different attitudes and ideas about how god, in fact, works, and where he belongs in the great scheme of things. To be honest, Mrs Majors' idea or faith is one I could more easily get behind than yours. It's more sensible, and personal, and has less to do with everybody else having to live with it. She obviously gets a lot from it, which is great. So do you, but you seem to think it is necessary for the rest of us to be playing along with it in order for you to get what you want out of it. And I really don't understand why.
Despite what you may think, Christianity really isn't under any threat in your country, just because you've got Muslims living there, or atheists, or because some gay people can now choose to be married. Nobody is banning you from practising your own faith. If there's sin in the world, nobody is forcing you to commit it. You don't really know what it is to have your religion forcibly cut from your lives. You might want to ask those who've really not been allowed to study their history and religion to get a sense of what that really means, and you don't have to go far to find the races and religions who fell victim to that Christian desire to force all to only worship their god, and you know that is true.
I'd be quite happy for you all to live like the Amish do, without all the evils of the modern world. Neither I, nor anyone else would stop you, but the funny thing is, so few of you really want to do that. I wonder why?
There's no harm in being who you are, thinking as you do. You do you. But it really isn't necessary for any of the rest of us to do the same.
I'd also like to point out that I don't think anyone here has claimed to be morally superior to god. That would require a belief in such a being, and nobody who believes he exists would make that claim. The moral superiority here, if such a claim was even being made, would be over the people who lived thousands of years ago in different times who wrote the manual which suited them at that time. A manual which changed as its original rather brutal tactics fell out of favour. A manual which adapted to appease the peasants it had ceased to effectively control by violence and fear.
I like Jesus. He's a great character to look up to, to want to be like. Doesn't matter that I don't think he is actually 'real' in the biblical sense, or that I think he's based on Siddharta Gautama, who definitely never claimed to be any god's son. He's a good guy, and we could all do worse than look to the lessons of kindness and selflessness there. But these are human emotions. When we start to see them as outside of us, and only acheiveable through someone or something else, that's when we lose the integrity, the purpose behind those things. Compassion, and love for all should be for its own sake. Not because some book tells us. And if it isn't there, the only thing we, as individuals can do is show it to one another, to provide the example ourselves.
And nobody with an ounce of compassion in their heart could look at the video of the last of the iron lung users and not want a world where nobody has to go through that. And vaccines could make that world a reality. Which is more than your god ever did.
Reply on January 19, 2018 02:49 PM
Reply on January 19, 2018 04:29 PM
But we have strayed, and I had said before I wouldn't discuss religion on the political forum. I will say that I have no problem with the various faiths people have. In many ways, it is a beautiful thing. But it is not mine, and whilst I appreciate that it is not fair to consider a deeply held faith a 'delusion', I am going to answer direct references to faith as some sort of truth which non-believers are incapable of understanding.
Our understanding is merely different. And much of this thread reveals why religion and politics make poor bedfellows and should be separate. In the interest of not further offending, I withdraw from this particular thread, and shall return to my original promise - no religion in the political thread.
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Reply on January 19, 2018 05:34 PM << Modifed January 20 at 6:45PM >>
Part of what you last posted is exactly what I have been trying to say for a good while...and its because there are differences in the interpretation of scripture, that I have tried to make it clear, that we all have the right to believe as we choose.
I will discuss anything with anyone, even with someone that is not a christian, or doesn't believe in scripture, but I will not try to force them to follow me and my beliefs and ideals...and to be frank, yet not trying to be unpleasant, I don't read dj's long worded posts.
I say that because I am not here to be taught or to teach, and I'd rather have conversations that are interesting, and from which its possible to learn something, even with differences of opinion..
Differences of opinion, can be interesting, trying to understand the thoughts of others, is what people do that are interested in the world, here there, and everywhere...and I truly believe you are one of those people...but because you or even CD, reads my words, it certainly doesn't mean I'm trying to teach you anything.
Those that have been posting here on a consistent basis have made their feelings know, and so have I...what should come next is just thoughts, and perhaps questions that some would like to have answered...my Faith is strong, its personal, and I also said, and mean this too...I can still be a friend to a non-Christian...who knows I might need one of them to being me a drink of water someday, or help me across the streets...and although I smile as I say that its true.
I spent another 2 days in the hospital this week, and its funny to say that I see the same nurses sometimes...and of course my medical records say that I am a Jehovah Witness...as is noted of the religion of all patients....they want to know your desires, should you not be able to answer in a serious situation....(should one need a transfusion is an important reason)...and I have been asked questions, with due respect about my Faith...I have never minded the questions...and I'll tell you this...(I might have told this story before).
After a stay in the hospital for a good period of time...my Hemoglobin Blood count continued to drop dangerously low...when it got to 6 my doctor explained I was in dire need of a blood transfusion...he went as far as to say they could do so after visiting hours so that if any of my JW members came to see me they wouldn't see.
What I have learned over my lifetime is there are people that mean you no harm, and only good...can you imagine hospital personnel that concerned about one patient, these are the kind of people I like to talk about...not someone that is trying to give me instructions on how to live.
I don't know the religious background of any of them... (although my Cardiologist is Indian)..and they didn't have to go as far as they did to help me...it makes me cry right now when I think of it...but then something happened that was such a blessing...instead of a blood transfusion they gave me 2 transfusions of straight Iron along with both vitamin b12, and vitamin D...and here I am...still hanging on...I had to stay a bit longer in the hospital, but I got back on my feel again.
I say all of this, whether anyone chooses to believe it or not, my prayer were answered...but that's my belief, no one else's and I wouldn't think any less of someone that doesn't believe that.
Sorry, for this long post, sometimes words just continue to come to this old mind of mine.
Just Some Thoughts!
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