Suicide Amid Molestation InquiryThread Started December 14 at 3:13AM
<< Thread Modifed December 14 at 3:13AM >>
Does all this seems to be going too fast for anyone else? I just saw this article on MSM tonight and find it horribly sad. I know Mike started the backlash thread, but it was getting terribly long so I chose to start a new one. I really am at a loss of what to think about this. :(
Rep Dan Johnson commits suicide amid inquiry.
Reply on December 22, 2017 02:14 AM
Even the 'obviously guilty' Nazis were accorded their day in court.
Innocent until 'proven' guilty is one of humanity's highest evolved social values, in my humble opinion--no matter how guilty the accused appears to be.
In these alleged sexual molestation/rape cases, this is what really grinds my gears: why wait until the accused becomes 'somebody' or wants to achieved 'something' before you suddenly remember that he/she needs to be prosecuted for accosting you?
I mean, if I, as a relative nobody, sexually assaulted Jane Doe today, then she should find the fortitude, relatively 'today', to press charges against me, and not wait 10, 15, 20, or 25 years down the line, when I've become a millionaire, or running for public office, before it dawns on her that I need to be prosecuted for my crime.
And I, personally, don't respect the idea that said Jane Doe seemingly has to wait 'til Amy, Becky, Carol, and Diana formally accuse me in order to find her own courage--long after the fact--to also accuse me.
If she'd decided to let it go, way back when it was still fresh, why not continue letting it go now?
I don't appreciate this 'pile on' phenomenon by accusers.
I've personally experienced cases where if I backed off after a woman said 'No' to my sexual advances, and made no further attempts at courting her, she regarded me as soft, weak, unsophisticated and inexperienced in assertively going after what I wanted--as a 'real man' would/should. Go figure.
Reply on December 22, 2017 09:29 AM << Modifed December 22 at 10:00AM >>
I will continue to repeat what I have said before on this subject...every man that has abused a woman should be made accountable for such behavior...but I don't think its at all fair, for any woman/man to make such a charge, and then say they do not want their name to be used...I've seen that..why is that?, in the present atmosphere the very hint of abuse falls on the man...and his family...I don't for one second condone any kind of abuse, but it seems to me, that even a murderer has a trial, and has the right to face their accuser.
We are assuming that the words of every woman that comes forward NOW, is to be accepted as being truthful...if only one man has been accused and vilified for this, and its not true, that's one man too many...When I see these woman come out, and face the one's that have mistreated them ..then I'll be satisfied.
I've seen too much in my experience to accept that woman have no responsibility when it comes to how they are treated...and to come out 10 years and more to speak out bothers me..I've seen woman that their only desire, was a corner office...and I've also seen what some did to get...not only heard about, but I've seen it...
From what I'm seeing, we are now to believe that every time a man looks at a women in a lustful way, smiles, winks, asked her out to dinner, he must be guilty of sexual abuse...to me, when a man has the nerve to touch me, in any way, thats what I call sexual abuse.
I would imagine many people would be able to speak to some act, or word that was
clearly offensive...if we were to ask all of them to stand up, millions of people would do so...if I was a man, I wouldn't want to be in a room alone with a woman even while working, shake her hand, ask her out, and I'd watch every word spoken, for fear of being accused of abuse..while a woman has only to accuse, and be believed...sorry, that's
how it seems to me...and its not right.
Just Some Thoughts
Short Works Rating
Reply on December 22, 2017 01:02 PM
But exactly what IS sexual abuse and harassment? I know of a case where the man put his arm around a woman's shoulder to congratulate her on a promotion. She filed a sexual harassment suit against him. It's reaching the point what men afraid to move, almost.
I've seen for myself, in dealing with young people in school, that an accusation will be made against a male teacher out of retaliation for a bad grade.
Never mind all that. This is getting to be a modern day WITCH HUNT. All it takes is a mention of abuse, and reason goes out the window.
I also wonder why wait until these men are famous and/or financially well off? Why not holler when it happened?????
We had a local radio station broadcast a tape of a woman SOBBING over something that happened in 1977! Really????
What woman hasn't had sexual harassment in her life? We take care of it then and there and move on. We don't wait six month, years, even 40 years to say something.
This is ruining lives. Not only the lives of the accused, but of their family, friends, loved one.
I repeat - a modern day witch hunt.
Please - no attacks for my views. I've not attacked any of you for yours. 8-)
Short Works Rating
Reply on December 22, 2017 01:24 PM
Dis, I think the point in certain cases may well be that they DID say something 20,30 or however many years ago ... but nobody listened. That was certainly the case with Jimmy Saville, who was already a celebrity when he committed HIS crimes, and in his case it's rather the fact that he was allowed such free access to children's homes and hospitals because of his celebrity status. Plenty of people knew about the abuse, everybody kept quiet, because he gave a lot of money to various charities. Children's homes in particular handed kids over to him for 'rides' in his car, despite many of the children expressing their distaste for doing so.
But in his case we are talking about underage girls, usually vulnerable. And I accept that underage girls are less likely to 'tell' for fear of not being believed, and certainly back in the day because adults were your superiors who you didn't challenge. Then, when they become adults, there's less of a worry that they'll be the ones in trouble. And, often, there's the realisation that 'our little secret' was actually wrong. I've heard a few people who were abused as kids say they hadn't liked it but thought everyone's dad/uncle did it (I think that's more the very young kids, though).
So there are lots of reasons why people don't come forward until later. I get that.
Mrs Major, you talk a lot of sense on this issue.
Reply on December 22, 2017 01:30 PM << Modifed December 22 at 1:34PM >>
I agree with everything you just posted...no attack from me...we are dealing with people's lives here, and yes, it seems to me these woman (some), have waited until these men are well known, and established to speak out...You're right and I have asked the same question..What exactly is sexual abuse?...I'd like an answer too...
Just Some Thoughts!
Short Works Rating
Reply on December 22, 2017 01:37 PM
Thank you for supporting me on this. I think things are way out of hand on t his issue. Just a whisper, and everyone picks it up and runs with it.
Thanks, again. 8-)
Reply on December 22, 2017 01:48 PM << Modifed December 22 at 1:49PM >>
You're Exactly right!
Reply on December 22, 2017 06:38 PM
Yes, Sarky, I agree with you on the cases where the accusers were initially too young/sexually naive to appreciate that they were being molested, then voiced their complaints and sought redress later, when they became mature enough to realize it for what it was. I get and appreciate those.
What runs my bile is seemingly mature--typically over 18--supposed victims who sit on their hurt and lash out with it long after the fact. And especially when the accused are/have become 'social somebodies'.
Where was the dogged angst and charges against them when they were relative nobodies--and the alleged abuse was still fresh?
And why do 50 other accusers have to accuse me before the 51st one miraculously finds his/her own courage to jump on the bandwagon--typically eons after my alleged crime?
Please don't get me wrong. If I molested 50 people in 2017, and they all, one by one, accuse and press charges against me 'in 2017, 2018, or even 2019' then by all means the onslaught against me is well deserved and logical.
But, if of the 50 persons--all sane adults--that I abused in 2017 only 3 of them complained and filed charges against me within the relative time of the crime, and 10 choose to accuse me 10 years later, and another 20 of them choose to vehemently complain 20 years after the fact, and the others trickle out of the wood-works after these latter 30, then...what's up with that??
Has time, instead of healing the wound, fermented it?
mrsmajor, if we're acquainted with each other, and I'm not some random stranger off the streets, and one day I suddenly made a sexual advance toward you, but which you clearly rebuffed, and I stopped and didn't make anymore such advances towards you again, and (perhaps) apologized for the initial unwanted gesture, would you consider that a sexual assault by me against you?
Does sexual harassment occur before or after the initial proverbial 'No!'?
Reply on December 22, 2017 08:15 PM
I agree with damommy.
& I believe she is speaking of women old enough to know what is going on.
NO ONE is saying it is ok for abuse of underage children.
Reply on December 22, 2017 08:59 PM
I would consider it sexual abuse only if you touched me...then no apology would excuse the fact that you indeed put your hands on me...I've been insulted, harassed and although that's not something I enjoyed, I spoke my piece...at that moment...self respect only comes if one has it for themselves...and I am being honest when I say that ugly words, may momentarily disturb me...but no one will get away with touching me, and it most certainly wouldn't take me 10 years or more, to make that kind of offense well known.
What I'm seeing in the papers, on television and where ever news is supplied doesn't make me believe in the validity of every story...sorry!
Just Some Thoughts!
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