The trouble with focusing on one man
Is that it misses something crucial.
I've thought about my occasional rants about the Trump dominated nature of this forum. It's not that I don't agree with everything that's been said about him by Craig and Steve. I've joined in plenty of times, haven't I?
But the problem is, sorry, but it's all arse backwards. Trump is being treated like the cause of all the problems because he is this, does that, behaves like this, treats people like that. Trump is not the cause. He is the symptom.
There is no point digging up one weed if you are going to ignore the fertile soil it grew from.
Men like Trump are opportunists. In business parlance, he spotted a gap in the market. What soil could possibly have given such a man room to grow into the position he is in now?
In my own country, we've got Nigel Farage. His party, Reform, stormed the local elections recently. How was he able to do that? Because, to quote Shakespeare, there's something rotten in the State of Denmark.
The thing with men like Trump and Farage is that they are retro-visionists. To paraphrase another favourite author of mine, what everyday people mostly want is that today is the same as yesterday, and tomorrow is the same as today.
In a world which is changing more rapidly than it ever has, people become lost and bewildered. The sales pitch of the Trumps and Farages of this world is, 'we can wind the clock back'. Back to a time when men were men, and the white man was King. Britain had an empire, America was the envy of the world, everyone else was there to be exploited, all the people who were sexually different had the decency to hide it, nobody had to bother about the feelings of those weren't in the dominant position in society. Life was simple and uncomplicated, if you happened to be on the right side of the fence.
This may be nostalgia for an age that never existed, but when people are dissatisfied with their lives in the present, harking back to the past with the rose-tinted spectacles jammed on your nose seems to be a natural thing. There's enough propaganda about how great it was in some distant time when most of us weren't born.
Trump, etc, didn't create the mindset. They capitalised on it. If everyone was happy, Trump wouldn't be a problem, because he wouldn't be there.
A thread on this forum asks if we are 'there yet'. No. We aren't. And we aren't because we are too busy focusing on one man's failings to see the bigger picture.
One nation shouldn't be this influential. And it's all very well saying that because it's a fact that it is, we need to get rid of the one man making this nation dangerous, but it isn't one man, it's the mindset that's seen that man get into power.
It doesn't matter how much the failings of this one man are pointed out to his acolytes. It doesn't matter how many times the same conversations happen over and over again.
Why is he there? How did America reach that point? If we don't answer those questions, another Trump will be along to replace this one.
Ordinary people are frightened. Technology has advanced ridiculously rapidly. I have been in the position to step off the world for 10 years and live in a bubble, insulated from it all and the culture shock has been massive.
How reliant we all are on something that can be disrupted easily. Look what happened in Spain when the whole country lost power for several hours.
Advancements in AI are changing how people live and work at an incredible pace. We are inventing our own mental decline as we have to do less and less for ourselves.
Technology polarises us by giving every man jack of us an anonymous platform to shout at eachother on, and the free time to do it. Rumours, lies and misinformation are more prevalent than ever because faking stuff is so damn easy.
So, yes, Steve, I do hate endless rounds of Trump this and Trump that because it misses
the point. Russia didn't end up with Communism because everybody was so happy living under the thumb of the Tzars.
America didn't end up with Trump because everything was so good over there they just thought it might be fun.
On an individual level, of course I care about Trump's criminal activities etc. On a global level, I think he was the inevitable consequence of the self-serving mentality that once made America and my own nation 'Great' in economic terms, if not in moral ones.
Whilst we all fight about the rights and wrongs of ONE MAN, others are capitalising, using the wealth and knowledge they've quietly gained whilst we happily exploited them for cheap labour, whilst banging on about the superiority of our own ideology.
When America falls, it'll be in part because the cause of the cancer is ignored in favour of arguing about how to alleviate the symptom.
2021 Script Writer of the Year
lancellot
RE: The trouble with focusing on one man
I may agree with every aspect presented, but I agree with most of it.
Trump, saw an opportunity, that many had been screaming about, but their voices were ignored. Some may not like it, but Illegal immigration is hugely unpopular in America, at least 75 to 25% against. But, those who were in power repeatedly lied to us, telling us there was no crisis on the border, that what we saw with our eyes was manufactured. 'Ignore the thousand strong caravans of illegals marching through Central America. Ignore the bus loads of illegals flooding Chicago, LA and New York.'
They told us to ignore that the COVID lock downs hurt students. Ignore the rampant crime. Ignore the foolishness of "Defund the Police". Ignore science and common sense, Yes, a man can become a woman. No, there is no difference, stop being a bigot. So what there is a grown man naked in your daughters locker-room. She is a bigot for looking away from his giant, swinging....'
They told us only white people can be racist. Only men can be sexist. Only the rich are greedy. Merit is racist, math is racist,.... One extreme after another.
So, yes, Trump won against Clinton.
But... then America tossed him out. And, like it or not, they gave Biden and the Democrats another chance... with the football, and they fumbled.
They screamed; Trump was a threat to democracy.
Then what did they do? They forced out their own people's "democratically elected" candidate, and installed Harris. Then told the people, "You're a racist and a sexist if you don't support her."
Then those same people screamed, "No one is above the law. We want Due Process"
Trump was charged and convicted.
Then what did Dems do next?
They tried to toss Trump from the Republican Primary election ballots in several states; by claiming he was an 'insurrectionist'. Where was the "Due Process"? When was Trump ever charged, tried, and convicted of Insurrection? NEVER... NO one was.
So much for rule of law or due process or democracy.
Again, I'm not saying Trump is a good man. He's not. People have been throwing endless charges, insults and rants about Trump (mostly from other countries) true and false, in the forums for nearly ten years now. WHAT HAS IT ACCOMPLISHED?
Like Scarbrems so eloquently stated: There are reasons he was re-elected, despite who and what he is. And as long as those reasons are not addressed, it will happen again.
RE: The trouble with focusing on one man
I agree wholeheartedly, Emma, in that Trump is a symptom. He is a symptom of the attitudes that have grown and festered in the US over recent times, and no, he couldn't have got where he is without the support of something very close to a majority of the country's citizens. That is very sad. This selfishness, or as we call it here, an "I'm alright, Jack" mentality is on the rise in many countries, including my own, though I think we have a long way to go before it gets anywhere near as bad here. That is one reason why we are so vocal in trying to defend against it.
But I don't go so far as saying that Trump is not also the problem. I doubt that there are many other politicians, even in the Republican ranks, who would be so willing to tear their country apart for their own gain, or so flagrantly thumb their nose at its laws and citizens.
Of course, another reason we so frequently go after Trump is that he is, in a way, a proxy for the millions of (I'll spare the adjectives I've used repeatedly) far-right ideologues. It would be considered rude in the extreme for we foreigners to say "look what America is doing", so to avoid offence, we say "look what Trump is doing". Of course, sensible Americans don't need to be so diplomatic, and many aren't. Out of respect for those people, we direct our invective towards their chosen leader.
One thing I find intriguing is how amazingly willing, and even eager, this highly religious population is to abandon everything their religion teaches them to follow someone who takes the utmost delight in breaking every single one of their commandments. And it is those who swear allegiance to evangelical fundamentalism who are his strongest supporters. I guess that just shows how important their moral and religious beliefs are compared to their political ideology.
RE: The trouble with focusing on one man
Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not declaring Trump to be entirely without responsibility.
I simply think he's not the reason why America is where it is now.
I'd say, Lancelott, that you are still being lied to now. The truth is almost always somewhere in-between, but people on all sides will believe what it suits them to believe, and align with whoever falls on their side of the rhetoric.
No government ever tells the whole truth. The y tell us what they think we want to hear, what might get them the most votes, what it suits them for us to know.
I have never been much of a conspiracy theorist except for one. Conspiracy theories are useful to Governments and it's no accident that just enough gets 'leaked' for Joe Bloggs to start peddling the 'truth' from his mother's basement.
I always thought the whole alien thing was a good example of this. It suits governments to have us believe they are hiding something about aliens. Suddenly declassifying files on UFOs/UAPS is very suggestive. If governments don't want you to know about something, you don't know about it. Luckily for them, aliens are a great cover story, a gift that keeps on giving, and by releasing bits here and there, it keeps the convenient narrative going.
Sorry, I digressed a bit, there.
2021 Script Writer of the Year
lancellot
RE: The trouble with focusing on one man
Um... I meant Illegal aliens as in people "illegally" crossing a country's border, without going through an authorized port of entry. And for the record, to 'legally seek or claim asylum, one MUST go through a legal port of entry and declare it.
For the life of me, I don't understand why this is so difficult to admit.
It is not illegal for me to enter your house. It is ILLEGAL for me to sneak in through your window. It does matter, if I'm cold or hungry. I must ask and permission to enter your home and eat your good UK food. How is this there an argument about this.
Having a need, doesn't give me the right to take what is not mine. People have lots of needs. Should they simply take what they need from you? Really think about that.
I'm not saying Trump isn't a liar. He is a politician, that goes with the job. But, the things I listed are real. And most Americans, and UK citizens don't want those things. So, if any party pushes or promotes those extreme things (not addressed), the population will revolt by way of election. This is Trump's last term.
Now, people are watching and learning. The next guy will not have Trump's baggage or faults. They will see what works and what didn't. Then what?
RE: The trouble with focusing on one man
Message edited:
RE: The trouble with focusing on one man
If anyone could get us all to agree on something, it's Emma.
Trump stepped into a power gap. He also enlarged the tent, with the promise of winning. Trump has always been gifted at getting access to other people's money, and using that to borrow more people's money, etc. Eventually, he just started doing the same thing with people.
RE: The trouble with focusing on one man
Well, there you go. I've achieved something.
2021 Script Writer of the Year
lancellot
RE: The trouble with focusing on one man
Yes, you did.
In my city, we have our issues. They say all politics is local, and in the end that is so true.
Chicago is facing billions of dollars in fiscal shortfall next year. Our city council approved yet another loan, even though our city's credit rating has been downgraded, yet again.
The mayor proposed new tax increases, and wants the state, who increased its own set of taxes to change the state income take from flat (equal rate for everyone) to a progressive income tax (dependent on your income). To do this requires a change in our State Constitution (which can only be done once a decade). It has been tried before but the voters rejected it.
When asked about the millions (estimated over two hundred million) the city spent on housing, feeding and paying illegals last year, the mayor refused to answer.
RE: The trouble with focusing on one man
That's interesting. Is it, then, the city's choice to spend that money? What I mean is, is there any sort of national or State ring fencing of funds?
Obviously, the UK is much, much smaller, but for us, spending on illegal immigrant management wouldn't be in the hands of local councils as such. So, for example, North Yorkshire County Council couldn't spend the Education budget on dealing with immigration. They'd have an allocated budget to manage that problem separate to local spending.
Interestingly, rumour had it that here in Scarborough, a hotel was housing illegal immigrants, based on said hotel having closed to holidaymakers. Of course, there was much ire about it, but it turned out a reopened mine in the Whitby area was using the place as housing for minors.
Which highlights, for me, one of the problems with all this. I don't disagree that people entering the country illegally are committing a crime by doing so. What I disagree with is the mob mentality that sees brown people or people speaking in an Eastern European language coming out of a hotel and makes assumptions.
Most of the rumours and downright lies surrounding this in our country involve the alleged 5 star treatment of illegal immigrants. Yes, hotels are providing accommodation in some places, but it's purely because they are big buildings with space. We have to put these people somewhere whilst the paperwork is sorted. It's not like they are enjoying champagne breakfasts at the Savoy.
It's not as simple as just chucking them back in the sea. Once they are here, they have to go somewhere to be processed. Some will have legitimate asylum claims. Many won't, but they still have to be assessed.
And that's the problem. It's not a crime to seek asylum. When fleeing a war torn country, or for reasons of political persecution, etc, it's not possible to put in an application before you leave that nation. All the paperwork has to be done here. It can't be assumed that every person turning up on a boat or in the back of a lorry has no legitimate reason for asylum, even though it's more likely to be economic migrants.
The biggest problem as I see it is the organised people trafficking. Many boat people have paid an extortionate amount of money to come here having been promised their paperwork would be ready on arrival. Some have websites promoting this new life, etc. People arrive here in massive debt. They've actually been brought here to work the cannabis farms and are told they must do that to pay off the debt. That's how the debt is to be paid. The gangs are good at forging paperwork for this.
The trouble is, this is an international network. The people who come over can be deported if caught, but the gangs are still operating from across the globe. This is made easier by the internet of course. Some are operating from within our own country.
2021 Script Writer of the Year
lancellot
RE: The trouble with focusing on one man
Yes, seeking asylum is one thing, simply seeker a better life is another.
To seek legal asylum, you cannot, cannot sneak in illegally, then later after you get caught claim asylum. No, it doesn't work that way. You must go through the port of entry and legally apply.
Many of us are not opposed to legal migration, but what we are opposed to is the constant lies and gaslighting. We dislike when activist, politicians and media, pretend or swap the term immigrant in place of illegal immigrant or illegal alien, to trick people.
We dislike when if a citizen is arrested with a child, that child is "obviously" separated form us when we go to jail. And no one bats an eye. But, when an illegal is caught with a child, suddenly it's FAMILY SEPERATION Oh No!
We dislike when our taxes keep going up, and that money is given to people entered the country illegally from another country. We ask: If there are millions of you, why can't you fix your country, instead of running? And if you ran from your country when things go wrong, what will you do here, if things go wrong?
We think these are fair questions, but for some reason, we are attacked when we ask.
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