Why I Should Never Review Poetry
public review/hidden dialogue21 total reviews
Comment from trimple
ROTFLMFAO!
Brilliant writing and bloody brilliant sense of humor.
It's true you know, a poem or prose or indeed any written piece here on FS is like a child to the writer, and nobody wants to be told that their kid is ugly...
There are certain ways of reviewing that can rip a piece apart and lend it just a couple of stars, but that one review may well turn out to be the best rung up the alphabet ladder the writer ever had the good fortune to get.
Loved the inner thoughts of your reviews LOL
You are funny :)
Well done
A worth winning entry
Kind regards
tracey trimple:)
reply by the author on 26-Mar-2015
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ROTFLMFAO!
Brilliant writing and bloody brilliant sense of humor.
It's true you know, a poem or prose or indeed any written piece here on FS is like a child to the writer, and nobody wants to be told that their kid is ugly...
There are certain ways of reviewing that can rip a piece apart and lend it just a couple of stars, but that one review may well turn out to be the best rung up the alphabet ladder the writer ever had the good fortune to get.
Loved the inner thoughts of your reviews LOL
You are funny :)
Well done
A worth winning entry
Kind regards
tracey trimple:)
Comment Written 26-Mar-2015
reply by the author on 26-Mar-2015
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I'm glad you had a good time reading my entry to this prompt. What I didn't know when I entered that these poems were the sponsor host's own work. Fortunately, Michael Cahill has a sense of humour or thick skin or both. However, the comments were legit and representative of my snarly nature towards much of the poetry posted on FS. Hence, why I shouldn't review poetry. Thanks for the visit..
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Oh shit! LOL
Great stuff :)
Comment from alphonsus murgatroyd
Congratulations on your winning entry in the Reviewers' contest. A very interesting artifice - claiming in a self-deprecating way to be 'inept ... at appreciating the art form' whilst at the same time creating a very clever review indeed. Your approach puts me in mind a little of the flaneur of Baudelaire's nineteenth century Paris - one who adopts the stance of the detached observer at one moment, and of the passionate participant the next.
An amazing performance. Well done.
reply by the author on 24-Mar-2015
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Congratulations on your winning entry in the Reviewers' contest. A very interesting artifice - claiming in a self-deprecating way to be 'inept ... at appreciating the art form' whilst at the same time creating a very clever review indeed. Your approach puts me in mind a little of the flaneur of Baudelaire's nineteenth century Paris - one who adopts the stance of the detached observer at one moment, and of the passionate participant the next.
An amazing performance. Well done.
Comment Written 24-Mar-2015
reply by the author on 24-Mar-2015
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What a glamorous role you have cast me in, but I do appreciate the comparison. Yes, I do feel detached from poetry, but can be passionate about my distaste or appreciation of the poet's work. But what I said was entirely true, because I have not studied all the forms and formats, I am confined in my response to the value of the impact of the poem.
The different interpretations baffle me, as at any one time the poet is not required to take responsibility for his words. If one reader interprets death and yet another renewal, the poet simply nods and tells both they're right. We prose writers, on the other hand, are not permitted to leave loose sentences dangling allowing for the reader to guess or internalize intent.
Thanks for the read and response.
Comment from Bill Schott
Your review was straight forward and honest. I agree with the comments in as much as, when comparing poetry to prose, it seems the conservative wording sought in prose is lost to the poet who creates, in a few syllables, a glorious image, then floods it with endless, unnecessary verbiage (much like my review, sans poetry).
reply by the author on 22-Mar-2015
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Your review was straight forward and honest. I agree with the comments in as much as, when comparing poetry to prose, it seems the conservative wording sought in prose is lost to the poet who creates, in a few syllables, a glorious image, then floods it with endless, unnecessary verbiage (much like my review, sans poetry).
Comment Written 22-Mar-2015
reply by the author on 22-Mar-2015
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Sometimes not so glorious a poetic image. Until I read the sample poems, I seriously considered planting morning glories this spring, and now with just one (cringe) I wouldn't dream of creating a visual to match a gruesome memory. LOL.
Thanks for the review.
Comment from K. Lorraine
Kudos... you said brilliantly what I might be thinking, yet had no idea of how to express my thoughts or feelings. And that's why I avoid writing poetry and when I do attempt, I'm usually disqualified for some technicality. Therefore, if I'm lousy at writing poetic pieces, I certainly don't have the qualifications to review it. Thank you for being the mouthpiece of those who don't qualify to make judgement of those who are the supposed expert poets...
reply by the author on 21-Mar-2015
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Kudos... you said brilliantly what I might be thinking, yet had no idea of how to express my thoughts or feelings. And that's why I avoid writing poetry and when I do attempt, I'm usually disqualified for some technicality. Therefore, if I'm lousy at writing poetic pieces, I certainly don't have the qualifications to review it. Thank you for being the mouthpiece of those who don't qualify to make judgement of those who are the supposed expert poets...
Comment Written 21-Mar-2015
reply by the author on 21-Mar-2015
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Thanks so much. The essay represents my true feelings towards the entire poetry experience.
Comment from RodG
I truly wish you would review poetry more often--especially mine! You have a superb facility for recognizing what is right/wrong with each poem and articulating your concerns and reactions. In each case, I think you were right on! I especially like your candor in expressing your reaction to each, and then your thoughtful analysis of all three was superb.
If this review doesn't earn you full honors, I will be amazed. Rod
reply by the author on 18-Mar-2015
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I truly wish you would review poetry more often--especially mine! You have a superb facility for recognizing what is right/wrong with each poem and articulating your concerns and reactions. In each case, I think you were right on! I especially like your candor in expressing your reaction to each, and then your thoughtful analysis of all three was superb.
If this review doesn't earn you full honors, I will be amazed. Rod
Comment Written 18-Mar-2015
reply by the author on 18-Mar-2015
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Rod, thank you very much for the stars and the heartfelt response. I very rarely read poetry probably for reasons that Brooke actually said to me, there's so darn much of really BAD poetry on this site. There are also some very good poems. In prose I can tell right away who is seriously trying to improve their writing and who is a hobbyist.
I'm sure I've read some of your poems, but I really think that even if I have an eye for the product, I doubt anything I might say could be useful and may be somewhat jaded.
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You DO, have a critical eye, my friend, and I think any serious poet (I like to think I am one) on this site would be honored to receive a critical review from you. "Jaded"? Nothing wrong with that as long as it's honest.
Rod
Comment from michaelcahill
OMG! I don't think I'll ever stop laughing. These are actually good reviews with a lot of useful information. It reminds me of my one honest friend in high school. I wrote this song, "Let's Drink The Rain", which everyone fawned over. It was a good song actually. When I showed it to my friend she fell to the ground laughing. "What's so funny?" I inquired. She said, "I have a vision of turkeys looking skyward in the rain ... drowning." Needless to say, I changed the title. If not for her, it would be YOU telling me about the turkeys drowning! I did try and find some things that needed work. You like how I say "try" like someone who posts twice a day for a year doesn't have a truckload of crap to chose from?
I don't know what to do with the haiku now as all I can see is what you describe when I read it. I'll keep it to amuse myself. The sonnet is for the folks that like that sort of thing. I like the free verse, but I'll look at it and see if there is some improvements to be made. as though I can improve on perfection.
This is a great entry. I hope people read it and learn something about honesty from it. There's no point to telling somebody there work is great when it isn't, unless that's the world they want to live in. mikey
reply by the author on 11-Mar-2015
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OMG! I don't think I'll ever stop laughing. These are actually good reviews with a lot of useful information. It reminds me of my one honest friend in high school. I wrote this song, "Let's Drink The Rain", which everyone fawned over. It was a good song actually. When I showed it to my friend she fell to the ground laughing. "What's so funny?" I inquired. She said, "I have a vision of turkeys looking skyward in the rain ... drowning." Needless to say, I changed the title. If not for her, it would be YOU telling me about the turkeys drowning! I did try and find some things that needed work. You like how I say "try" like someone who posts twice a day for a year doesn't have a truckload of crap to chose from?
I don't know what to do with the haiku now as all I can see is what you describe when I read it. I'll keep it to amuse myself. The sonnet is for the folks that like that sort of thing. I like the free verse, but I'll look at it and see if there is some improvements to be made. as though I can improve on perfection.
This is a great entry. I hope people read it and learn something about honesty from it. There's no point to telling somebody there work is great when it isn't, unless that's the world they want to live in. mikey
Comment Written 11-Mar-2015
reply by the author on 11-Mar-2015
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Truthfully, when I wrote this, I assumed you were having some fun with the members and pulled out some famous poets; work to see how silly we all have become believing our perceptions determined good poetry. It was not until later when some reviewers alerted me that these were your poems that I groaned.
By changing the word bend to endure in the haiku the wishbone legs disappear. Sure, I hated the flower sonnet, but that was obvious wasn't it? I went for the laugh (it's true, you know. Morning Glories were considered a good laxative.) But rest assured, I would never have reviewed the poem and for reasons that I've stated, there are few poems I review as not to interfere or add an uneducated opinion.
Thanks for the stars and for your good humour.
Comment from Jennpenn
You bring up a very important point here: when is politeness disingenuous?
As a WRITER, the only rule I always follow is my concept of truth. If I can dig out the "truth" in each situation I am trying to relay, I know I've tried my best. Now, that doesn't mean the writing is good. Some may consider it good, and others my determine that it is self-indulgent crap. That's where my skill and experience meets (and meshes or clashes) with reader expectation.
As a REVIEWER, I find myself tempted to throw my own rule out the window. I have to fight with myself when I give a four-star review, and not give the expected "five" (which politeness on this site dictates). Whenever I give only four stars I feel a twinge of guilt--until I remind myself that if my writing is only worthy of four stars I WANT TO KNOW. Therefore, I go out of my way to explain my reasoning, so writers don't think I'm being picky or just plain mean. I mean, honestly, the main reason we joined FS is to become BETTER writers, isn't it?
Ahhh, I think that is MY primary goal, but not everyone's. I would rather be told the truth in a kind way than be led to believe my writing is stirring hearts when it's not even touching them. Truth is important. It's refreshing, and inspiring. Yes, we all want to hear that our words remind others of Byron, Faulkner, Fitzgerald, but it's a hollow echo in my head if the readers' praise isn't true. In the end, that hurts more, giving me the sense that I am as great as I always imagined, only to discover by agents and publishers that it was all bunk!
So I beg reviewers to treat me fairly, honestly! Tell me, as kindly as you are able to, that my writing is wonderful, horrible--whatever your impression. I AM NOT MY WRITING. I can take it. If I can't separate my ego from my words, my writing will never improve.
reply by the author on 11-Mar-2015
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You bring up a very important point here: when is politeness disingenuous?
As a WRITER, the only rule I always follow is my concept of truth. If I can dig out the "truth" in each situation I am trying to relay, I know I've tried my best. Now, that doesn't mean the writing is good. Some may consider it good, and others my determine that it is self-indulgent crap. That's where my skill and experience meets (and meshes or clashes) with reader expectation.
As a REVIEWER, I find myself tempted to throw my own rule out the window. I have to fight with myself when I give a four-star review, and not give the expected "five" (which politeness on this site dictates). Whenever I give only four stars I feel a twinge of guilt--until I remind myself that if my writing is only worthy of four stars I WANT TO KNOW. Therefore, I go out of my way to explain my reasoning, so writers don't think I'm being picky or just plain mean. I mean, honestly, the main reason we joined FS is to become BETTER writers, isn't it?
Ahhh, I think that is MY primary goal, but not everyone's. I would rather be told the truth in a kind way than be led to believe my writing is stirring hearts when it's not even touching them. Truth is important. It's refreshing, and inspiring. Yes, we all want to hear that our words remind others of Byron, Faulkner, Fitzgerald, but it's a hollow echo in my head if the readers' praise isn't true. In the end, that hurts more, giving me the sense that I am as great as I always imagined, only to discover by agents and publishers that it was all bunk!
So I beg reviewers to treat me fairly, honestly! Tell me, as kindly as you are able to, that my writing is wonderful, horrible--whatever your impression. I AM NOT MY WRITING. I can take it. If I can't separate my ego from my words, my writing will never improve.
Comment Written 11-Mar-2015
reply by the author on 11-Mar-2015
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If I could put you on centre-stage and shine a spotlight on your response, I would, but as that is not an option in my vault, I shall instead nominate you for celebrated reviewer. Not that my little accolade will make a difference, To win the $100 prize, I'm told a reviewer must accumulate 40-50 nominations in a month. Hmmm...
Your opening sentence says it all. Who is telling the truth and how do we qualify the reviewers? What surprises me a lot, when I've asked the question--rarely--do you ever look back at something you wrote and think it was sheer crap--most writers will bluster and defend. 'I always put my best foot forward.' That's the usual response and it isn't wrong, but when pressed, asked if they'd write it differently six months or a year later, it's disappointing how many people will answer no.
By the way, my answer is YES.
Unless writing evolves, the member gets nothing from this site.
I skip a lot of work. After a while I've come to recognize those that are genuinely trying to improve their skill-set and those using the site recreationally as a form of expression. Yes, I grade the eighty-seven-year-old lonely man differently than the writer who declares his intention to be published. But the other articulate and dead-right point you make is about ego. The author needs to cut open a vein and bleed on a page, and the reviewer must recognize he is not a judge or jury. At best, when I hand out those fours, it means I recognize you have talent and I'm taking the time to share my knowledge and hope that it is in some small measure helpful.
I hate horror, but I was one of Dean Kuch's first fans. I'm not into romance, but Cumbrianlass seduced me with her breathtaking, historical fiction.
I wish you'd take your response and turn it into an essay for public consumption.
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Thank you, I think I WILL work this into an essay. When you mentioned the ego-versus-writing issue, I smiled. I think ego stands in the way of writing. I recently won two writing contests (there's that bragging ego talking!)--BOTH of which I found flaws in when I reread them. Given the opportunity, I would change each one! But for me, these short stories were exercises, just as every review is. Trying to craft words into something that connects with the emotions of others is no easy task. The more I write, the harder it becomes to truly connect, not just fall back on some ploy that has worked for me in the past. It's a challenge that humbles me just as it forces me to expect more of myself. I have witnessed some incredible writing on this site. It's the words--not the authors--that have motivated me to want to do better.
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The only piece of advice I'd give you here is to completely disregard connecting with anyone when you are writing EXCEPT your characters and the emotions. If you are authentic, you will reach those who empathize and walk in your shoes.
Commercial writing--those magazines and books like Chicken Soup or Harlequin novels have formulas and there is nothing wrong with pandering to that market, but don't do it while you are discovering your own voice.
Comment from Jumbo J
Hi Ingrid,
oh, you're going to be a popular lady... pigeon's amongst the cats? More like mice stuck in the toes of elephants... smile))))))))).
Wondering how someone reviews a review of a review? Hmmmmmmmmm? Even I'm confused.
com'on, the haiku wasn't all that bad, I thought it had imagery that allowed the mind to wander... seems your 'cynic' tag might stick? But all the same, liked your suggestion.
Yeah, Morning glory was a bit... let's say, stretched... but I guess its why they call it poetic license?
So your the one that gave my poem a one? No just joking... this definitely ain't my style.
And well, the third a final review... tickling the sky... I see this as those people that talk a lot without really saying anything of importance... small talk... the ones that turn your ears off... but me as a reviewer... if I can't find at least one nice thing to say, I'm not going to review it... yes, even if it's paying big dollars... I'll read and click and this is a great example of that!
In summing up your reviews... no matter your thoughts on poetry... if you put your work out there to be critiqued, then expect it... in what ever form it comes... that's why I'm Jumbo... skin as thick as an elephant... and even in between your snipes, you gave great advise... well at least I thought so.
I think Mikey may have a big smile on his face creating such a stir... but no matter, if I'm entertained, that is where the beauty is... yeah, even if it is a tad cynical... but you know I love you, right?
With our thoughts we create,
controversy,
James vx's
reply by the author on 10-Mar-2015
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Hi Ingrid,
oh, you're going to be a popular lady... pigeon's amongst the cats? More like mice stuck in the toes of elephants... smile))))))))).
Wondering how someone reviews a review of a review? Hmmmmmmmmm? Even I'm confused.
com'on, the haiku wasn't all that bad, I thought it had imagery that allowed the mind to wander... seems your 'cynic' tag might stick? But all the same, liked your suggestion.
Yeah, Morning glory was a bit... let's say, stretched... but I guess its why they call it poetic license?
So your the one that gave my poem a one? No just joking... this definitely ain't my style.
And well, the third a final review... tickling the sky... I see this as those people that talk a lot without really saying anything of importance... small talk... the ones that turn your ears off... but me as a reviewer... if I can't find at least one nice thing to say, I'm not going to review it... yes, even if it's paying big dollars... I'll read and click and this is a great example of that!
In summing up your reviews... no matter your thoughts on poetry... if you put your work out there to be critiqued, then expect it... in what ever form it comes... that's why I'm Jumbo... skin as thick as an elephant... and even in between your snipes, you gave great advise... well at least I thought so.
I think Mikey may have a big smile on his face creating such a stir... but no matter, if I'm entertained, that is where the beauty is... yeah, even if it is a tad cynical... but you know I love you, right?
With our thoughts we create,
controversy,
James vx's
Comment Written 10-Mar-2015
reply by the author on 10-Mar-2015
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Mikey may not have a smile on his face as I'm told he wrote all three poems. This was a contest. If it was a cheap investment to get a lot of people to read his poems, then I guess he'll get, as you say, both reviews on reviews as well as some critiques on the poetry put forward to review I really do the same, skip most poetry, checking to what my poet friends are up to, but it isn't a normal entrée in my meal.
I'm beginning to believe this site is attracting people who need a lot of stroking, perhaps a playground...have no idea why a critique should be offensive. Really.
Comment from reconciled
I waited to read some reviews, and to see with my own eyes the "experts" who would six you for your rape of one mans musical inheritance penned in his perceptions tongue...quite entertaining I must admit....-smile- Hello Ingrid, hm well now its seems to me, personally having experienced your um "dislike" of poetic expression...o..not in open forum but in repeated and constant reminders to all...that it is consistent with the disobedient squeak of chalk on a classroom bored stiff.
Now, the obvious reason "you" shouldn't review poetry....is quite simply "you" don't love it...-headshake-...nope... therefore having never fallen in love...it is almost impossible for you to experience, and for the poet like myself, to expect interaction... it is misfit. I hope this review clarifies, and finds you deep with your nose into prose...and far from the budding flower of the next poet laurette...now if you'll excuse me...this assignment has given birth to a new composition, I cant wait for you to read....kiss kiss...Michael
reply by the author on 10-Mar-2015
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I waited to read some reviews, and to see with my own eyes the "experts" who would six you for your rape of one mans musical inheritance penned in his perceptions tongue...quite entertaining I must admit....-smile- Hello Ingrid, hm well now its seems to me, personally having experienced your um "dislike" of poetic expression...o..not in open forum but in repeated and constant reminders to all...that it is consistent with the disobedient squeak of chalk on a classroom bored stiff.
Now, the obvious reason "you" shouldn't review poetry....is quite simply "you" don't love it...-headshake-...nope... therefore having never fallen in love...it is almost impossible for you to experience, and for the poet like myself, to expect interaction... it is misfit. I hope this review clarifies, and finds you deep with your nose into prose...and far from the budding flower of the next poet laurette...now if you'll excuse me...this assignment has given birth to a new composition, I cant wait for you to read....kiss kiss...Michael
Comment Written 10-Mar-2015
reply by the author on 10-Mar-2015
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Yes, I suppose you're right, I surely must have my nose deep into prose. I take only one offence to your comments and that is my 'repeated' and 'constant' expression--of ANYTHING.
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Ingrid...now I feel bad. Look....who is an "expert" revewier...?....what qualifies someone as such...? you see, if you were to tell me it were folk like Steven King, the chick who wrote the "Harry Potter" stuff....or anyone else whove influenced "Average Joe Americano" to go down to "Barnes and nobles" and spend their money on the words they've published...I'm listening and learning....but who are these "experts" who can pave the road gold for you on your way to find the wizards promise....even if there were.."experts"....how many...? so if you or I were to write like "they" think....well we'd sell to a fraction of a percent to the public at large...and there is the golden goose....the public at large....the "honest" review from the Un-expertized snob-....the everyday john and May who feel you.....
you are a wonderful writer...I never said or would otherwise...but it just irks me when .."some" crown themselves "experts" at Baskin Robbins world wide flavored taste.....love-
Comment from nor84
I agree. I rarely review poetry and read only Brooke's children's poems, as they address my inner child.
For another thing, a reviewer has to use more words to review a haiku than the poem itself contains.
a like Story poems -- The Highwayman is a tragic romantic adventure. But reading The Highwayman and Kipling's Law of the Wolf Park (not its title) have ruined me for poorly written poetry.
reply by the author on 09-Mar-2015
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I agree. I rarely review poetry and read only Brooke's children's poems, as they address my inner child.
For another thing, a reviewer has to use more words to review a haiku than the poem itself contains.
a like Story poems -- The Highwayman is a tragic romantic adventure. But reading The Highwayman and Kipling's Law of the Wolf Park (not its title) have ruined me for poorly written poetry.
Comment Written 09-Mar-2015
reply by the author on 09-Mar-2015
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Many review poems exclusively, gathering up member dollars, but though it's a quick way to earn bucks, it tends to be Pablum. Worse, good poetic reviewers tend to be dismissed when they don't come forward bearing their five and six star accolades.
I have a handful of poets that I watch, mostly because they are interesting people, and I like to know what's going on in their heads.
