EclipsesThread Started August 21 at 8:06AM
<< Thread Modifed August 21 at 8:09AM >>
I saw something on Facebook today that I thought was interesting. That is unusual enough in itself to raise it here.
There's been a fair bit of interest in eclipses lately, especially in the US - since one is due in a few hours.
Isn't it odd how when scientists tell us the moon is going to block the sun, most people actually believe them? They don't think the scientists are making it up, to cover the truth that the sun is being eaten by a dragon. They don't tend to believe they are a bunch of idiots and don't have a clue what they are talking about. They don't talk about how much "faith" it requires to believe in eclipses. They don't accuse them of "faking" evidence.
But change the subject to evolution, and suddenly the scientists of the world are an ignorant, conniving crowd, manufacturing evidence to support their deliberate lies. Either that or they're complete ignoramuses who can't see all the real evidence.
The absurdity of this amazes me.
Reply on August 21, 2017 12:24 PM
huh what evidence...?
that we evolved from monkeys...
or a big bang brought us together...or perhaps were sea creatures who shed our fins for suitable attire...?
yes yes the ah..."logic" is overwhelming.
do take your meds this morning CD....and read a Psalm for good measure...my blessing's.
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Reply on August 21, 2017 02:01 PM << Modifed August 21 at 2:01PM >>
People have the right to believe what they want...the eclipse is visible, no one can doubt that...its there for all to see if it crosses their path...no one is forced to even be concerned about such a thing.
The idea of evolution is not a proven fact, and may never be proven to the satisfaction of those that believe otherwise...
I believe in the creation of the world, by Jehovah God...that's my right, yet I don't condemn anyone of these two groups, we're all entitled to what we believe and want to accept...
Just Some Thoughts!
Reply on August 21, 2017 02:59 PM
Isn't it just amazing how am apple is an apple, and an orange is an orange. It IS so confounding.
Reply on August 21, 2017 05:47 PM
If I want to get my daily dose of fiction, I'll stick to Harry Potter - it's so much more cohesive and believable than your reading matter of choice. As far as being descended from monkeys - have you looked in a mirror lately?
Sometimes apples aren't apples, they're the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil... and if you eat them you will DIE, just like Snow White in the book of Dwarfians 14:23-37.
and now to address the response which actually contained some thought:
You are totally correct in that people have the right to be wrong. I will go to my grave defending your right to believe things that don't make sense. People also have the right to point out absurdity. Somebody could have created the entire universe, including our beloved Earth, some 6,000 years ago, and in a piece of deception literally on a cosmic scale produced a trail of false clues - such as geological structures and fossil evidence which gives every indication of it being many billions of years old. But why would they? They could have designed creatures with remnants of organs that are absolutely useless to them, as some kind of warped joke. That would exhibit a very strange sense of humour.
Why do you think it is that people aren't concerned about eclipses? That "no one is forced to even be concerned about such a thing"? They used to be. People were actually put to death for causing eclipses, or being unable to prevent them. So perhaps it's not as "natural" as you think. Perhaps it's because you've grown up understanding what scientists have only relatively recently discovered to be the truth about them.
In much the same way, there is no doubt, apart from a tiny handful of zealots, in the scientific community about evolution. A tiny proportion of properly accredited scientists choose to believe a mythology strung together by a random collection of seers, soothsayers, goat herders and the odd king or two over the methodical collection of facts over centuries by their more solidly grounded peers.
Next time you or someone you care about gets on a plane to travel half way around the world, has a life saving medical procedure, or even enjoys some nice cool mammary secretions of a cow on their corn flakes and doesn't die, you can thank the same scientists you accuse of the treachery indicated in my first post.
Reply on August 21, 2017 06:39 PM << Modifed August 21 at 10:27PM >>
And before anyone else mentions it, I'll just admit to the obvious conclusion that eclipses prove the existence of the almighty...
Did you know that solar eclipses only work because the sun is around 400 times bigger than the moon, but also happens to be 400 times farther away? If the moon was even 1/10 further away from Earth or 1/10 smaller, we would never see a solar eclipse! Coincidence? I think not! Here, my friends, is yet more conclusive proof that the universe was designed exclusively for us!
Back to regular programming.
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Reply on August 21, 2017 10:59 PM
The difference in what you believe and what I believe is clear, however I don't feel the need to condemn you, for your thoughts...I just find it strange that it makes you so satisfied to call a belief in God absurd...Why is that, what do you get from such an accusation.
It just seems so unnecessary...
Just Some Thoughts!
Reply on August 21, 2017 11:11 PM
I don't believe I condemned you.
Furthermore, I didn't say your belief in God is absurd. At most, I would describe it as puzzling. Or perhaps, on a different day when I was in a darker frame of mind - unfortunate, or even disturbing.
What I do think is absurd is adopting a stance that flies in the face of all evidence and common sense. Plenty of people who believe in God don't see the need to dismiss and even mock facts that have been established beyond any shred of doubt.
What my post was intended to show is the absurdity of cherry picking when it is time to replace facts with faith.
Reply on August 22, 2017 08:53 AM << Modifed August 22 at 8:53AM >>
Hey CD, a few things:
As to your snow white comment:
I get a kick out of how people like to dismiss archetypes or stories based upon archetypes , denying the possibility that they might actually be based upon and steeped in SOMETHING.
"You are totally correct in that people have the right to be wrong. I will go to my grave defending your right to believe things that don't make sense. People also have the right to point out absurdity. Somebody could have created the entire universe, including our beloved Earth, some 6,000 years ago, and in a piece of deception literally on a cosmic scale produced a trail of false clues - such as geological structures and fossil evidence which gives every indication of it being many billions of years old. But why would they? They could have designed creatures with remnants of organs that are absolutely useless to them, as some kind of warped joke. That would exhibit a very strange sense of humour. "
Or, it could be, that there IS a point for us all being here right here right now, and there IS an instruction manual left for us to tell us what is expected of us , and desired for us right here and right now in this tiny speck of the universe at this time in the eons. Why is it SO absurd to think that there might be a reason we are here? After all science seems to tell us that there is a reason for EVERYTHING. ( Oh yeah, except for the most pertinent question for all of mankind)
Obviously , ( I think) the science of eclipses is well established. So much so that we can observe and with great accuracy predict them. However, I have never seen any proof of us observing and predicting evolution of any species ( especially a species transitioning into another species...Nor is there any fossil record of such). The most observable and predictable case of this might be my own theory of man being transformed into Lucifer's new creature...The zombie)
You also say:
"If the moon was even 1/10 further away from Earth or 1/10 smaller, we would never see a solar eclipse! Coincidence? I think not! Here, my friends, is yet more conclusive proof that the universe was designed exclusively for us! "
If the moon were as you suggest, I believe we are told that our tides ,and our orbit / rotation would be quite messed up. This is part of that fine tuned universe that ex post facto suggests quite an absurd chance that we ARE here by chance.... But I know, it is ex post facto. Hey, in a similar line of thought....Just to agitate you a bit more CD, I hear that yesterday's eclipse was the first total eclipse exclusively viewable in the United States since 1776. Interesting, I think. I fully expect, and hope for you to blow some holes in that or at least tell me how absurd it is to care or notice. Lol. Bless you , my truth seeking brother.
Reply on August 22, 2017 10:35 AM
I'll admit you got me there, Doug. I will concede that, in fact, Genesis IS based on Snow White.
You kind of lost me in your next point. I was referring to the mental hoops one is forced to jump through if you accept the creationist position that the Earth is only a few thousand years old. Such a position basically asserts God is a liar, because he has deliberately tried to fool us by planting "evidence" which makes the Earth appear billions of years older than it really is. What this has to do with an "instruction manual" is not clear to me.
As for reasons, once again, you misunderstand the purpose of science. Science doesn't, as you claim, peddle "reasons". It deals with explanations of cause and effect. In the scientific world, things have causes. Reasons are the province of religion.
You say: "However, I have never seen any proof of us observing and predicting evolution of any species ( especially a species transitioning into another species...Nor is there any fossil record of such)."
The proof is all around you, you just choose to ignore it. Mankind has been not only observing and predicting, but controlling the evolution of species for millennia. Every single breed of dog there is has come from Canis lupus - the grey wolf. Think how different a chihuahua is from a doberman, and we engineered all that - all the thousands of breeds. We have been genetically engineering livestock for almost as long. And yes, we have created new species as well - fruit flies are an example.
As for fossil records of the development of species - you really need to stop taking at face value the utter rubbish that the creationist folk spruik on the subject. This has been gone over and over. There is abundant evidence. Do some reading for yourself of serious works by recognised paleontologists and biologists. Richard Dawkins' The Ancestor's Tale should be compulsory high school reading. The only thing Gish, Ham and their cohorts do is make creationists look like monkeys - which is kind of the opposite of what they are after.
As for the last paragraph - I satirically held up the eclipse as an example of the "fine-tuned universe". I'm not sure from your words what you are trying to say, but it seems like you are really trying to use that as an example?
As far as I'm aware, the only land location that saw a total eclipse was indeed the continental US. Other locations got partial eclipses, and if you'd been in a boat on the ocean, you might have been lucky enough to see a full eclipse. Do you think it could be a sign from God that he is indeed well pleased with his divinely appointed ruler of the free world?
Reply on August 22, 2017 04:10 PM
Wow, Craig!, intelligent forces manipulating DNA is certainly compelling evidence AGAINST the absurdity of an intelligent designer.
But that aside, enlighten me Craig. What species was the fruit fly before it became a fruit fly? Was it a bird? Or, perhaps a dog? Maybe a toy poodle that transitioned from the grey wolf to the chihuahua. ( All sub- species from the same species I might add) . It seems that any breeding, or cross breeding of species that you may bring up is ALL manipulation from an outside "intelligent force", is it not?
I suppose if you told me that the fruit fly was an ant that scientists got to sprout wings, then I might be somewhat impressed. I'm no entomologist. Are a fly and ant the same species? Lol.
As far as your describing the book of Genesis as having fairy tale like qualities, I am guessing that you are referring more to the Creation account, or more to the first 11 chapters of Genesis anyways. I have been meaning to make the following point in regards to the seeming simplistic nature of the Creation account of Genesis. It could be that when the Creator saw to the crafting of what has become the Creation account of the Manual, that He saw no reason to make it complicated or that we needed to know more, or that we could even handle more. As my beautiful wife once said " who are we, to expect that God owes us a detailed scientific treatise from HIM on how He creates?". Perhaps, He wanted it simple to torture or test the faith of scientist types for such times as these? As far as God being made to be a liar, God's Word doesn't say how many years are between Genesis 1:1 and Gen 1:2. Man though, seems to have come up with some numbers.
I know too, that you knew that my statement of science saying that " everything having a reason" is quite synonymous with your "everything has an explanation" .
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