Reply on August 26, 2017 06:11 PM
Donya, our posts crossed. 'Without slavery those states had little to stand on. They sound like a bunch of lazy people who wanted someone else to do the work for them. Remember most white Southerners were not slave owners. That was a privilege reserved for the few and the wealthy. Sounds a lot like today, doesn't it' - Absolutely, it does, and funnily enough one of the supporting arguments for slavery was ... cheap goods. I know in my own country, those opposed to freedom of slaves had one eye on the price of sugar, and how much it would affect their business. Sounds even more familiar. Not to mention 'businesses will close/leave if we don't let them do as they wish'.
Short Works Rating
Reply on August 26, 2017 06:31 PM
With the many African and African American graduate courses, I'm sure more are aware that the slave trading didn't start with America...there were a thriving business long before.
Its not a matter of innocence, its a fact, though, that most Black Americans, even with the knowledge of how it began, are mostly concerned about the effect it had on this country.
What is most troublesome for me is not particularly with individuals, but when the government, whether deliberate, or by chance show bias, that's what I must say most do not notice...when something doesn't effect a person, its easy for it to pass unnoticed.
What's going on in Chicago, Detroit, and even Baltimore, are not being overlooked, but those interested in making changes...for the better...are doing that...however it does take time and money to erase the scars that are there from lack of concern by those that could make a difference...that's not an excuse, but it is a fact...there's more to what is happening there, more than the violence, not to excuse any of it, but there is a long and history of neglect in both those cities.
As long as Blacks, and all other minorities are made to fell responsible for the state of this country nothing will change...the water situation in Flint Michigan is causing actual deaths, yet I hear little of this...it seem Black children just don't count...but the violence in Chicago, Detroit, and yes Baltimore are always the subject that comes to mind when one thinks of Blacks...and yes minorities.
My daughter and a friend, spent a week in Washington C.D. visiting the African Museum, and when she returned she told me how amazed she was at what was on display...History beyond what some would imagine...she is trying to get together a group of the young people to go and see it...that museum means more to us than can be imagined...and could be a way of giving to some problem youth a bit of pride...to give them reason to try harder...and to realize we do have a history..
Although Lee may not have been the worst of the worst, its clear, though, that he wanted states to remain free from federal rule, also it was his main concern that states be allowed to continue to own slaves. It wasn't his desire to have any monuments, and he made that quite clear, but here they are..and there is a negative meaning to some of us.
I enjoyed this conversation, its always a good thing to have a reasoned discussion, with people that actually listen...its not possible to agree on everything, but its trying to understand someone's point of view that counts.
Thanks very much...I'm right here, don't get to do the things I enjoy most anymore, but I have wonderful children my friend "Shaka"..stays right by my side...(no, its not a male friend, its my dog...LoL)...indeed I have been truly Blessed...
Just Some Thoughts!
Reply on August 27, 2017 04:11 PM
To me, it seems like in America right now there is such a growing agenda trying to foment more and more racism and resultant conflict and send us in a backwards direction in race relations as a "great" way for
destabilization and pushing agendas .
I recently ventured back up to my home state of Minnesota and shopped in a St. Paul Wal Mart where I was definitely the minority. We all got along just fine, as is my own everyday experience on my job in Des Moines where great racial diversity, AND peaceful co- existence are the norm .
This cognitive dissonance inspires this observation:
The new Civil war- (as presented to us by the MSM)
The battle between the people who AREN'T racist, who, unfortunately, wrongly believe we have finally transcended racism and are constantly being told that they ARE racists, and the ones who ARE racists, unfortunately don't want to transcend racism and tell themselves and the world that they are NOT racists. A Weird, weird time in history .
Isaiah 5:20King James Version (KJV)
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
And the great Dr. King Rolls in his grave.
I Have a Dream https://g.co/kgs/RZaEDE
Give this following video a watch and at least try to understand its context, and why, in my eyes, the following statement makes sense. It is why I write this very post.
"Only by being so sensitive, that you become insensitive is the only way to keep people out of the brainwashing trap"- Alex Jones
Some equal time to move the overton window the opposite direction:
Short Works Rating
Reply on August 30, 2017 12:46 AM << Modifed August 30 at 12:51AM >>
And that my friends, is how Alex Jones and the alt-right spins and manipulates the facts to deceive and lie by using a confirmation bias, and generalizations to spin what they so sadly believe is the truth about the "mind-controlling media driven globalists".
But I gotta hand it to ya, DJ you and Alex really did outdo yourselves this time. So what exactly is your relationship to him? I know you've said you've listened to his podcasts 20 plus hours a day for the last ten years at high speed. But is there more to the relationship?
And talk about fomenting division. Look at the language you've used in a single post: good and evil, right and left, sweet and bitter, light and dark. That is polarization taken to the extreme. And then to top it off you post an Infowars video entitled According to the Left, Martin Luther King Jr. is the new leader of the KKK. So what are you trying to say? That Martin Luther King had a Nazi Dream?
I'll just edit this sentence for you. "
Perhaps you might want to rewrite this next section a different way too because I'm not entirely sure what you mean.
"The battle between the people who AREN'T racist, who, unfortunately, wrongly believe we have finally transcended racism and are constantly being told that they ARE racists, and the ones who ARE racists, unfortunately don't want to transcend racism and tell themselves and the world that they are NOT racists."
Are you saying the left is projecting their racism onto the alt-right? And that the alt-right isn't racist at all? Perhaps it would help me understand if you'd tell me what you think racism is. I'm more of the view that all the "isms" would cease to exist if we eliminated RANKISM so we can become truly enlightened beings and stewards of the wonderful Earth we inhabit.
PS: Alex Jones used to say President Obama controlled the weather, using tornadoes to kill people. So does this mean President Trump finally figured out how to use the White House weather equipment, or was Alex Jones full of it? Or perhaps extreme weather really IS due to climate change caused by human activity? I look forward to Infowars similar podcast about Trump and the weather.
Reply on August 30, 2017 03:21 AM
There's a difference between 'transcending racism' and shoving it under the rug. Shoving it under the rug is the ' I went somewhere once with lots of people of a different colour, and we all got on fine, so obviously there's no problem' mentality. Shoving it under the rug is telling a POC that they are imagining a racial slight, and that the dark and troubled history of slavery is no longer relevant today, and that attitudes in those dark times have magically disappeared.
They haven't. And when you talk about 'propaganda', what about the 'propaganda' that, for years, shoved that very history under the rug. Martin Luther King won a battle, but he knew he hadn't won a war. It took laws to end slavery, and it took laws to end apartheid, but laws can't change what's ingrained in popular psyche. Where did those attitudes that allowed those dark times to carry on for so long go?
If we just forget about it, stop challenging, sit back on our laurels and say, 'oh, that's all just ancient history', sooner or later, those attitudes come creeping back into mainstream thought, and that is what is happening now.
Some of the comments about 'propaganda' on this thread puzzle me. Why is acknowledging that some folk in your past weren't heroes to everyone, 'propaganda'? It would be propaganda if there were no slave trade at all, and I'm sure that isn't what you are saying. Wasn't the erection of those statues in the first place 'propaganda'? How many American school children were taught anything other than 'these men were heroes'? Isn't THAT propaganda?
The 'propaganda' I'm seeing here is the 'division only exists because the 'left' invented it. the KKK are all nice folk. White Supremacy is a conspiracy, it doesn't exist now, if it ever did'. Nobody's racist in the world, all the drama is all whipped up by some leftist agenda, everyone loves one another because I went to a place once where all the people were nice to me. Oh, and I'm still going to refer to 'left' and 'right' even though I've repeatedly said that division is a conspiracy (created by the globalists, who are naturally 'left').
Look, do I agree with vandalism? No. But at least I can understand, in this instance, why it happens. Do I think there are people on both sides using the situation to push agendas? Yes. But if there wasn't still an underlying problem, there'd be nothing to base an agenda on. If there wasn't the history, there wouldn't be the present, and it seems to me it isn't just the statue attackers who want to erase the past. Seems more like some would like the statues to remain to keep up a glorified representation of the past as something other than it actually was. To keep going with the propaganda machine that quietly airbrushes out the bits of American history that aren't so 'great'.
Gloria, really? Obama controlled the weather? Must've been a joke ... mustn't it? What's worrying is that I could well believe someone would say that in all seriousness. That's how ridiculous I think such people are.
Short Works Rating
Reply on August 30, 2017 04:06 PM
okay...I've researched some now.
and Gloria is correct in that We America were not the first to abolish slavery.
at the time, of out civil war...the whole of the civilized world was acknowledging the un-justness of slavery.
Lincoln's want of civil war claimed no reason being slavery. in fact denied it as cause. it was only after the war had begun he promoted it as such. I found out much...even that them who opposed this civil war and voiced complaint were arrested and silenced in jails....and them voices were from the North.
though I as well as Lee himself and the majority of civilized life oppose slavery. to not understand the truth of our history does no one justice and discredits some wrongly accused. Lee could have remained in Arlington an American hero...but in good conscience could not hand over complete State control to another monarchy that ruled over all.
talk about a principled man...talk about General Robert E Lee.
even if you have no respect for him...understand even Grant, Lincoln, Washington himself know you wrong.
Reply on August 30, 2017 04:12 PM << Modifed August 30 at 9:43PM >>
"But I gotta hand it to ya, DJ you and Alex really did outdo yourselves this time. So what exactly is your relationship to him? I know you've said you've listened to his podcasts 20 plus hours a day for the last ten years at high speed. But is there more to the relationship? "
No, just a common set of basic core beliefs.( Although not ALL....BUT I bet you could never name what they might be, but I welcome you to. Please, please , feel free to ask ask.) And a belief that racism is being fomented to push for destabilization. Does this mean that I don't think or even know that racism exists? No it does not. I would be a fool to think that. But It would also be foolish to believe it is as rampant ( suddenly...Since Trump got elected) as the MSM wants us to now believe.
And you say;
" And talk about fomenting division. Look at the language you've used in a single post: good and evil, right and left, sweet and bitter, light and dark. That is polarization taken to the extreme. And then to top it off you post an Infowars video entitled According to the Left, Martin Luther King Jr. is the new leader of the KKK. So what are you trying to say? That Martin Luther King had a Nazi Dream? "
No,I know that you know this decisive language comes straight from the Bible. I guess we now know what you think of that text.
No Nazi dream at all. Perhaps a better answer to this line of questioning was answered in the last hour of AJ's show on Tuesday, when he and PJW interviewed black activist and YouTube sensation Constance Owens. Great , great info in that. You all should most definitely check out what she has to say.
Perhaps it would help me understand if you'd tell me what you think racism is. I'm more of the view that all the "isms" would cease to exist if we eliminated RANKISM so we can become truly enlightened beings and stewards of the wonderful Earth we inhabit.
Racism, to my way of thinking is hating, or demonizing , or blaming, or accusing a group of people because of their race, or uniting characteristic ( Referring only to that which is commonly thought of as a person's "race").
What is RANKISM? I can only guess. But I agree with your view of the "isms".
Then you say:
"PS: Alex Jones used to say President Obama controlled the weather, using tornadoes to kill people. So does this mean President Trump finally figured out how to use the White House weather equipment, or was Alex Jones full of it? Or perhaps extreme weather really IS due to climate change caused by human activity? I look forward to Infowars similar podcast about Trump and the weather."
This is similar to that old saying in your skeptic circles that "AJ said" that Bush and or Cheney pushed the plunger, (Wile. E. Coyote style) on the bringing down of building seven on niner eleven.
I was going to say much more, but then I figured I would wait to hear from you what "RANKISM" is. Lol.
Sark ,you asked me what I thought about removing of historical statues in America. Me being in fly over land,and especially in the north, I don't get exposed much to it here. I am sure that these kinds of monuments are all over on a smaller scale if I looked for them. No one around here seems to give much care about them in either direction, when I think of the few small ones that I am aware of. I do think they should probably be left for their historical significance, no matter what beliefs are or WERE attached to them. Somebody obviously figured these things ( the historical significance) worth preserving.
It is interesting what you say in regards to the Germans and to their inability to even utter such words as Hitler, Nazi ,swastika and the like. Please correct me if this is not right to your knowledge, but I have been lead to the understanding by podcaster Ted Broer, and a few others that the mere utterance of these words is strictly forbidden, even in discussing them in a historical , or lesson learning context. This severe form of censorship strikes me as not serving humanity , or the German people very well at all. Why would this be? It seems that historically ( Not to put them as morally equivalent at all) but this "tabooing" of subjects like smoking, sex ,drugs (and even rock and roll), or tea totalling of alcohol doesn't necessarily serve a young , inquisitive, easily enticed and often rebellious mind, at all well. Perhaps THAT is my answer. THOSE evil , scheming Luciferians know human nature all too well.
Blessings. God blesses the truth seeker.( John 8:32)
Reply on August 30, 2017 06:42 PM
A few more things , Sark, you say:
"The 'propaganda' I'm seeing here is the 'division only exists because the 'left' invented it. the KKK are all nice folk. White Supremacy is a conspiracy, it doesn't exist now, if it ever did'. Nobody's racist in the world, all the drama is all whipped up by some leftist agenda, everyone loves one another because I went to a place once where all the people were nice to me. Oh, and I'm still going to refer to 'left' and 'right' even though I've repeatedly said that division is a conspiracy (created by the globalists, who are naturally 'left'). "
I am assuming you are talking of me and my posts. Yet YOU., young Missy are assuming that I refer to the left and right. Look again at my post. You will more than likely NOT see me Referring to the bogus left OR the bogus right. (The globalists most definitely are NOT left, They just like y'all to think they are part of the game. ) I will just add that, I in no way support anything about the KKK and disavow everything about it. That being said, the formation, history and continual support of the current "institution" being called it, is nothing at all what "they"want us to think. And there ARE indeed more and more people of color who agree with the idea that much of the drama is whipped up by some agenda, as you put it.
I was also not really only merely making the point that "I once went in to the place where people were nice to me...". You probably are not aware of this , but this Wal Mart ,and more specifically, its location in Minnesota is very prominently in the National news as a supposed, or THE hotspot for Muslim/ Christian "friction" in America to the best that I can tell.
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Reply on August 31, 2017 02:06 AM
Peace, love, harmony and humbleness are also words mentioned in the bible, DJ. So your assumption is simply not correct. The words you chose were carefully selected to push forward your agenda by allegorical suggestions, hints, and euphemisms so as to elude political censorship.
There is no need to ask what your core beliefs are as that has been asked of you umpteen times and your answer has always been veiled in riddle me propaganda or scripture. I have zero interest in any conversation built around plausible deniability and evasiveness.
You define racism as this:
"Racism, to my way of thinking is hating, or demonizing , or blaming, or accusing a group of people because of their race, or uniting characteristic ( Referring only to that which is commonly thought of as a person's "race").
You have barely scratched the surface of what informs racism in this description. I am hoping it is only time restraints that caused you to define racism in such superficial and narrow terms and not the other possibility that you haven't considered the subject in its fullness. Racism is much, much more than this.
Rankism can be briefly defined as abuse of power over those in positions of so-called "lower" rank.
Reply on August 31, 2017 03:10 AM
DJ, the information you have on Germany is partially correct, but a little out-of-date. They used to not even refer to their history in schools, but that is changing now. It's not exactly like they were hiding anything (how could they? There are still plenty of people alive who were there, even if only as children). It's more like the elephant in the room. Like having a murderer in the family. Everyone knows about it, nobody wants to discuss it. Can you imagine the classroom discussion:
'What did your Grandaddy do in the war'
'Sir, he was a Nazi war criminal ...'
Whilst I take your point about 'inquiring young minds', I think the Germans simply wanted to start afresh. There's no escaping the history, like I said, it's still in living memory for so many. Maybe they thought that preventing the very words being spoken might reinforce the idea that this is something to be ashamed of?
You may not know this, but the island I live on was occupied in the war (one of the German soldiers married a local girl, and is still alive and living here today. He joked to the Queen when she visited that he was the one that never left.) We see a lot of Germans here, and since the evidence of their occupation is still all over the place, they can't miss it. A few years ago, in the field above our house, they found 70 mines, 30 of which were still live, and it is said that the cliffsides are still littered with mines, despite a sweep done after the occupation ended (the ones in the field above our house had just been moved to the edges, instead of properly detonated. It's a shortcut to the pub from our house, Mike and I joke that for the two years we lived here before they were found, we'd been dicing with death).
My point is that Germans have never been prevented from seeing the aftermath of the war. They couldn't avoid it. Did they really need to be taught about it, or to speak the names so hated to know what it was all about? Many have been to Auschwitz, on school trips, even. Not being allowed to say the word 'Nazi', or publicly display a swastika (which is still the case) is now, I feel, a mark of respect for the many Germans themselves, not just those of Jewish descent, who suffered at the hands of the brutal regime.
But there are many places in Germany where those who died at the hands of the brutality are remembered, and in this I think the Germans have got it right. The inquiring young minds of Germany don't see symbols and statues of a hated ruler everywhere, but they DO see memorials to those who suffered under his reign of terror. So what do they learn? Sympathy with the destructed, not the destructor, possibly? You'd have to ask a German that, but, hand on heart I can tell you that nothing in their past is hidden, or lied about, or made light of.
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