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Spiritual Echo
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RE: Just the facts, Ma'am
Reply on December 12, 2017 10:24 AM << Modifed December 12 at 11:49AM >>
Just for the record, Gloria--in the event anyone misconstrues your post--I understood perfectly you were showing an example of how a 'deplorable', already drenched in all the fake news stories can be nurtured by their own fear and mass mania.

As for telling me about the name 'Barry', I appreciate the late night laugh. In light of my extensive writing about my respect (actually winning first prize in an essay contest) for Obama, I'm sure you were aware of my convictions about both the past and present POTUS.

In reflection, my admiration for Obama was totally colour blind. During his tenure, I often wept when he spoke of tragedies and laughed when the man--perfect timing--delivered an aside or joke when appropriate. Though, I saw him as a great leader, deeply handicapped by Congress for their refusal to work with him, I truly admired his courage and presence on the world stage.

It was on the world stage where America's disdain for their own president (some, not all) looked ridiculous. Internationally statistics show the WHITE race is a minority . No one thought of him, though no doubt were aware, of Obama as America's first black president. They paid attention to the man because he commanded respect. Moreover, he made deep friendships with other world leaders because he EARNED their respect.

To discuss Obama in the same breath as the current WH occupant is an odious thought. There is simply no comparison. One of America's finest hours was followed a stench that can be detected across the world. Trying to reconcile how something as evil and dark could follow such light is beyond comprehension. If it's hard to do so from a distance, I can only (actually, I can't) imagine how it feels up close and personal/



mrsmajor
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RE: Just the facts, Ma'am
Reply on December 12, 2017 12:58 PM


Ingrid,

In some of your conversation it would be nice if you would make it clear that you speak from your understanding...

"No one thought of him, though no doubt were aware, of Obama as America's first black president"

That's a statement so contrary to what I know that its almost funny...I don't know what circles you travel in, or where this kind of information comes from..but believe me its just not the truth...its your opinion...

While he was indeed respected for the man that he is...that he was America's first black president was it one of the most talked about subject in the circle I travel in...in the United States and where ever I travelled during that time.

Obama didn't just appear in the political scene when he ran for office, this is a man that used his abilities for the benefit of others for most of his adult life...and quite frankly the treatment he received by those in congress was not surprising...if you recall the majority leader, at that time, said clearly their first job was to make sure he didn't have the chance for a second term...a black man president...O my goodness what's next that's what they must have been saying...LOL

You're right about one thing, you simply cannot imagine how is feels "up close and personal" to hear some of the things said about him, but this is not the first black man that survived such comments...Martin Luther King Jr. was murdered because of his life's work..I applaud Obama's ability to take all the negativity he had to listen too while president and even now.

Though perfection is never going to be a part of anyone's life, Obama tried his best..and that's all I ever expected...

I expect Nothing from trump...absolutely Nothing at all...

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Spiritual Echo
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RE: Just the facts, Ma'am
Reply on December 12, 2017 02:25 PM
In my opinion, I was clearly talking about Obama on the world stage where race was inconsequential. The only thing that mattered to other world leaders is that Obama was the leader of the free world, the President of the United States. It was noticed and reported that Obama was the first BLACK American president, but it was not an ongoing part of INTERNATIONAL conversation.

When Margaret Thatcher became the first woman Prime Minister in the UK, that milestone was also noted, but out there, beyond American borders, world leaders are recognized by their power, not by their gender or the colour of their skin.

Yes, of course it was a HUGE deal in the US, and the racial, gender and sexual orientation--not to mention religious affiliation--continues as an enormous note of contention--within the United States. I didn't say anything at all about differently.

Call it my imagination, after all, I'm not that much younger than you, Mrs. M., but it seems you are looking for an argument where none exists. I have never taken issue with any of your opinions, and can't recall one instance where I so much as disagreed with your views. Even if I had, it would be hard to dismiss them as you have always been articulate.

Every country in the world has internal issues and although the America dilemma of trying to find some--ANY--balance between political parties with radically different views when examined in the extreme-, the same conflicts exist in the Arab world where Muslims hate other Muslims because they belong to the 'wrong' sect In China, girls were often murdered at birth in their one-child mandate, considered to have no value in tending to the parents in old age.

Canada is working hard to reconcile with our crimes--that still continue--against our native people. Countries--too many--still consider homosexuals the scum of the earth.

What made Obama's election, in my humble opinion, interesting to the world was the REACTION of Americans to his victory, not his actual presidency. Obama had far more respect in the International community than domestically. When he spoke in Canada this fall, it was to a sold out audience who gave him a standing ovation when he walked up to the podium. His challenges during his tenure make him even more admirable, but the DEFAMATION he suffered for eight inspiring years was by Americans.

With all due respect, Mrs. M., surely, based on nothing more than my fascination with American politics, and culture of the USA, you must acknowledge I've heard of Marin Luther King Jr. and the strength and sacrifices of other heroes in the civil rights movement.



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RE: Just the facts, Ma'am
Reply on December 12, 2017 03:55 PM


mrsmajor
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RE: Just the facts, Ma'am
Reply on December 12, 2017 04:03 PM


So much of what you are spouting, Ingrid, is simply your opinion...I haven't been sitting in my house for my entire adult years...I may not have travelled in your circle but you can say whatever you wish, and I will definitely response if I want... looking for a fight..not at all, just not of the same opinion you have...my lifestyle has been so different from yours, I've been to different places, seen people you wouldn't even know existed, and that's what has been the background for my thoughts...it's natural that you don't want to hear any of that, and would prefer agreement..sorry, that's not the way it is...and I make no excuses for anything I post here...do you?...

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RE: Just the facts, Ma'am
Reply on December 12, 2017 05:12 PM
No, I don't make excuses for what I post. As a matter of fact, I take care when choosing my words so that they reflect my opinion. For instance, as a writer, I am aware that some words are simply hostile: Such as--spoutiing--instead of sharing.

Treading carefully, I am never so presumptious as to assume what another person knows or does not know, where they have traveled or the life experiences that gave another person their perspective.

As a black woman in America who lived through some extreme conditions and battles, I can learn from your experiences, but never feel them like you do and would NEVER assume I could ever fully understand/

As for being afraid of conflict, I do believe you have me confused with someone else. I've fought my wars, and though they were different from yours, I have the scars. I choose my battles carefully. don;t squander energy for the sake of drama.

There simply is nothing here to argue about or to put it more politely--DEBATE. Of course you can--and have the right--to respond to anything posted on these threads. Feel free to call me, accuse me of anything you FEEL choose. No one is obliged to answer everyone's posts or share their own opinion, but do try to stay on point as personal assaults are frowned upon by management. From a personal POV, I've always felt that other people's opinions of me are none of my business.

I
.

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RE: Just the facts, Ma'am
Reply on December 12, 2017 07:50 PM



You choose not to see the words you mentioned that I have put in quotes, that's what I mean by spouting things that's just not true...its your opinion, yet you state it as though its fact...

For those others that read these posts, I simply want what I know to be a fact to be included in any conversation...especially with something so important as what we are discussing here...to even think that the first black president in the US wasn't cause for discussion, applaud, all over the world...isn't my experience, and it is important that people know that...

I've visited just about all the Caribbean through the years, including, Aruba, Antiqua, Jamaica, Bahamas, Trinidad, Barbados, St. Thomas and St. Kits and St. John, Puerto Rico, and others, numerous times...because of my husband's job...and these people are fully aware of the status of the racial divide here in the United States...

There are/were discussions on this subject in campuses of the University of the West Indies, all over the Caribbean...perhaps not equal to what may be considered of value here, but there are conversations, that still keep up with the news.

So it does bother me when statements are made that just are not completely the case....its fine to make our own opinions known, why not, but I have the right to have included in some of these conversations what I know to be the truth...

I doubt you have ever been to any of the Campuses of the University Of the West Indies...well I have...and I have found there to be some highly intelligent and interested people, young and old...concerned with what goes on around them in all areas of life...

Sorry if you don't like that, but I prefer to include what I believe is important...just as you do...no one knows it all, I certainly do not, but yes I do know somethings...

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RE: Just the facts, Ma'am
Reply on December 12, 2017 09:34 PM << Modifed December 12 at 9:40PM >>
mrsmajor you said,

gloria,

Anyone with a brain knows that's not true, so I don't know why you bring that up...do you believe any of those theories...do you believe Obama was a Muslim, and all the other names that are thrown his way...it takes a certain mindset to believe those things...and I understand that, but for the millions, that probably do believe all of that crap, there are millions those like myself, that ignore these negatives for what they are...negatives...so you're not telling me anything by what you just said...the question becomes, at least for me, do you believe any of it...is that your mindset...are you willing to accept everything you read...

Your comments make me wonder, do you read anything I write and did you read the article I linked? Of course I don't believe any of this nonsense, but some people on this site do. I take an interest in what people think, how they've arrived at their thoughts and where our understanding goes from there.

A forum is by definition a place for sharing opinions for the purpose of engaging considered "debate".

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RE: Just the facts, Ma'am
Reply on December 12, 2017 10:11 PM


gloria,

No, I don't read all of those articles, because I really am not interested in what they say, I am interested in the thoughts of those that post here, their ideas, their thoughts, and opinions...not from what they read...if I wanted to hear all of that I'd stay on my computer, there are enough sites to keep anyone busy...however, if and when I want to respond I will do so...this site is the place where ALL of us can post their thoughts...and you don't have to read anything I might post.., its okay..I can tell my opinions are indeed, not yours, and believe me, that's just the way it will always be...no problem for me at all...for me you speak as an outsider, one that sees all the negatives, here, so do I, but there is life here besides what you choose to post...the articles are usually so full of what most of my friends call nonsense...

Just Some Thoughts!


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RE: Just the facts, Ma'am
Reply on December 12, 2017 10:16 PM
major

Seeing as you seem to believe you know where and how I get my information, why don't you tell me what it is you think I think? You should read that article. It would open your mind.

With all due respect




   
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