Reply on November 20, 2017 11:03 PM
Actually, what drives reasonable people nuts is that something like 90% of people (depending on where you live - in these parts it might be more like 30%) are firmly convinced that their own opinions aren't their own, but are delivered to them from on high, and are therefore infallible.
If the 90 percent of people who have their opinions served up to them on a platter by the Almighty actually had the same opinions on anything, there might be some serious cause for concern for the other 10 percent of us ;-)
Anyway, I guess we are drifting away from the topic here. After all, this is the politics thread, not the religious one.
So why do you suppose God chooses such imbeciles to be his chief stewards, and ones who are so narcissistic, self-concerned, and lacking in empathy for any person or thing besides themselves? Is it to show how incredibly clever He is, because he can accomplish His purpose (whatever that might be) in spite of the fact that His amazing plan must be implemented by buffoons?
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Reply on November 20, 2017 11:44 PM
My argument has never been with anyone's faith, how they worship or how he uses the gospel to guide him through life. My argument is when a person cannot express his point on matters that do not have a religious content without throwing God's name into the conversation.
There is no absolute agreement, even between Christians, on the interpretation of the Bible. The conversation veers off track as without some shared principles the entire content of the 'debate' shifts, stalling and ending any attempt at understanding different POVs of THE ISSUE. It becomes a challenge of wills as to who is the most faithful. Total nonsense.
To challenge another's point of view through personal understanding of HIS word is presumptious. You are declaring you, and only you could be right because you believe you are acting and talking like one of God's chosen missionaries.
In Ireland,Catholics and Protestants alike murdered each other--both groups Christians--in the name of religion.
The reason so many fled England is The Church of England was the only acceptable religion. The freedom to worship as each person chooses was written into the Constitution. I wonder why?
The very reason I, and many others, want and expect a separation of church and state is for this very reason; so that logical people will not get muddled down with religion. Nothing gets accomplished.
Reply on November 20, 2017 11:48 PM
His chief stewards were imbeciles according to Monty python.and the find my way band...aha....eh um well Craig you must have lumber jacked in your day...when they yell timber....should've moved. if you think "lil' men have the strength to face leviathan and not shrink. ha...ah well I guess courageous is a box of chocolates and truth the caramel ones.....night Jack-
Reply on November 20, 2017 11:57 PM
hey Ingrid...who is "he" and "his"...?
Reply on November 21, 2017 12:29 AM
Is there a translation service available on this site?
Reply on November 21, 2017 05:18 AM
Thank you, Ingrid. That's exactly the problem with a god in the White House. Any god. It voids all arguments against any policies, because all the incumbent has to do is say 'it is god's will', and who can argue whether it is or isn't? If you try, immediately you are 'against the word of god', and where does THAT lead? Down the road of heresy and apostasy becoming crimes. In all fairness to Trump, I don't know that he's actually made any of these claims, but he doesn't need to. His supporters have done it for him, and he hasn't corrected them. Why would he? The suggestion that he might be a divine appointment helped him win the election.
Simply saying, 'god shows me the way' does not in fact make anyone automatically RIGHT. It's just words. Words that anyone can say to justify any action, thought, deed or opinion. In my opinion, and it is just that, an opinion, this is the very reason gods were invented. To provide an unshakeable ally to leaders of men, thus making it easier to control the population.
But that's not a thought for this forum, and takes us further away from the subject in hand. We'll spend yet another thread discussing the validity of a belief in an entity which has absolutely nothing to do with the original subject, and one has to wonder if the creation of the first amendment came about because every time anyone tried to discuss laws and policies for the new land, somebody invoked a god, and three days of argument about said god ensued.
You can't run a country on what some god wants, when the god isn't actually saying anything directly. All the men end up doing is squabbling about who the god is really talking to the most, and whose interpretation is actually correct, and who is the most faithful.
Meanwhile, the people who really run the country are the practical guys in the corner who haven't such lofty notions about where their ideals come from, and recognise that a higher power isn't going to make sure the streets are clean, the sewerage system works and everybody has mains water access.
Reply on November 21, 2017 09:57 AM
good morning ten to thirty percent ....and the enlightened force with you.
nobody I know or voted for petitions for a marriage of church and state....it was "Christians" who understood the necessity of the separation in the first place. may the Good Lord be with you all this morning and every tomorrow that follows. BIG LOVE RULES THE WORLD!
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Reply on November 21, 2017 10:16 AM
I was hoping to put an end to the need for further conversation about comments concerning one's use of their religious beliefs in this discussion....but I cannot, and so will address some of what I just read...I do understand that there are some here that do not in any way accept the concept of a higher being, I have accepted that through-out our discussions and only wish that the same respect shown to them would be shown to those that do believe.
As a human being the very idea of perfection is not something I would ever own...there are no perfect people here on this earth...not the Atheist, not the Christian not anyone of us...however, the God I serve is"infallible", at least to me, but I do not expect others to feel the same way...its simply a matter of choice, and we all have that choice to believe or not.
My beliefs are found in the Holy Bible, not on a platter, and as I continue to say..often..we all have the choice to believe or not...my concern for those of you that feel my choice is unreal, or simply an opinion...is frankly something I find quite annoying...why not allow the person that has a devout belief in Almighty God, that right without being ridiculed...it seems you want your rights to be respected and accepted but refuse to do the same for others.
Let me make something perfectly clear to you CD, and also to Sarkems whatever your religious beliefs are or not, mean nothing to me, why? because you have that right, you can do just as you please and that's been said over and over again, from me...right here on this site...and yet you both feel the need to continually to show disdain for those that hold their faith dear.
trump is a man that has never been concerned about anyone but himself and his family...that's not an opinion...its a fact, one could see that in his history shown to some of us...here in New York.
Here's where I'm wrong to even make this statement, but not being a perfect human being I will say it anyway...from my study of the scripture, trump has nothing to do with the God I serve, no matter how many times he would like us to think so.. is he lacking in empathy/sympathy? and clearly one that doesn't believes in honesty...yes he is all of those things... but please don't even think, for a moment, he has anything to do with the God of Love, that I follow...he doesn't.
We all have to be considerate of others, simply because we all live in the same world...my faith doesn't say I must hate an Atheist, or one that doesn't hold my faith to be true...what I am taught to do is hold fast to what I believe...I only wish recon would keep his references to God out of this conversation, as I have said many times, this is not the site for it, and surely even I differ with him.
Just Some Thoughts!
Reply on November 21, 2017 11:15 AM << Modifed November 21 at 11:29AM >>
Aw, forget it. I posted a long response, then thought; 'This thread is about elephants and ivory trades'. Anyone anything further to say on that?
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Reply on November 21, 2017 12:06 PM
Damn! Yes, I think I have something to say. I really thought the elephant was a metaphor, taking it to mean the elephant in the room. Maybe we should start over.
Mrs. M. Never once have I read your opinions and found the words 'What I say is true because I embrace and speak for Jehovah. You offer opinions and rebuttals based on your perception--thoughtful participation. No one cares whether you wear bloomers or a thong--it's simply not relevant to the thoughts you offer. No one is required to justify their core beliefs or the undergarments of our opinions, but to make God the defence is like telling me I have to start wearing your preferred lingeree choice before we can have a discussion.
Yeah,C D. Maybe we do need translators.
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