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DIS-illusioned

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RE: A Place Called Heaven
Reply on October 27, 2017 03:58 AM
'God' is not happy with this thread.
Undoubtedly, there will be consequences.
That next bad thing that happens to you, you'll 'know' why it did ....


jlsavell

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RE: A Place Called Heaven
Reply on October 27, 2017 08:00 AM
Sarkems , have just read your post. Great points. I agree.

Did, you are too funny.

mrsmajor
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RE: A Place Called Heaven
Reply on October 27, 2017 09:28 AM



Sarkems,


You're so right, I believe, by the comments made from the majority republican leader when Obama won his first time, it was clear the idea of a black man as president was not acceptable...he said the first thing they had to do, was to make sure Obama wouldn't win a second term...of course people will never ever admit to that...but if they want to believe otherwise, so be it...I also believe men are not ready for a woman president, but there are some woman that feel the same...

Its quite obvious why the sudden interest in Clinton, its clearly to divert attention away from the present trump investigations...as I said, if she has done something that can be proven wrong, then she will have to deal it...but I also know people like Recon are delighted that there is that possibility...

Just Some Thoughts!




AnnaLinda
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RE: A Place Called Heaven
Reply on November 12, 2017 12:37 AM
Sorry, I don't get Gloria's point at all...She starts out about division of church and State, yet she carries on about some preacher I've never heard of and whom Trump mentioned?

Lord...why do we care?

Don't you all think it's bigger than this and all the propaganda we all swallow? Why all the talk about race and religion? Hello!

Geez...


ytbard


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RE: A Place Called Heaven
Reply on November 12, 2017 11:14 AM << Modifed November 12 at 11:35AM >>
Speaking about a separation of church from state - this happened in Russia after 1917 revolution. The result was Russian people living in atheistic society for over 70 years. Religion was not taught in schools and was frowned on. A schoolteacher going to church could have lost her job if found out. I was a victim of that non-religion for many years.

Things changed in Russia after the second "revolution" in the 90s when they restored capitalism. The new regime stopped the deficit and standing in lines for food became past. I have to admit, growing up in an athestic country made it hard for me to become really relugious, but I did attend Russian Orthodox church in Long Island and wear my Russian otthodox cross all tbe time.

Now I have to find orthodox church in Myrtle Beach. Maybe AnnaLinda will help me, as she is moving to the neighborhood soon.


CD Richards

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RE: A Place Called Heaven
Reply on November 12, 2017 05:11 PM << Modifed November 12 at 5:17PM >>
I think your post confuses two different things, ytbard. I'll admit I could be wrong, because my knowledge of Russian history is not good. However, it sounds to me like you are equating separation of religion and politics with oppression of religion by politics. They are two very different things.

The thing the American founding fathers got so right, and their descendents seem so desperate to get wrong, is that even though they were in the main (nominally at least) theistically inclined, they understood that politics should not legislate discrimination either against or in favour of religious belief. These are matters for an individual, and the church should keep its nose out of State matters, and vice-versa.

Thus, there is no reason religion - any religion -
should be taught in school. To teach Christianity is to discriminate against Muslims, Jews, Hindus, or people of any other religious belief. It's also against those who believe in no deity. For the same reason, schools should not be teaching there is no God. Schools need to concentrate on teaching secular subjects - mathematics, science, language, arts, etc.

If people of a religious persuasion were persecuted in Russia, then that is also a result of a failure of secularisation, as the founding fathers saw it. Separation means people should be free to believe (and, within limits) speak what they like, without interference from authorities. No more, no less.



ytbard


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RE: A Place Called Heaven
Reply on November 12, 2017 05:31 PM << Modifed November 12 at 5:32PM >>
That might be helpful:

http://soviethistory.msu.edu/1917-2/conflict-with-the-church/conflict-with-the-church-texts/resolution-concerning-execution-of-the-decree-of-separation-of-church-and-state-and-of-school-from-church/


CD Richards

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RE: A Place Called Heaven
Reply on November 12, 2017 06:18 PM << Modifed November 12 at 6:35PM >>
Yes, that certainly does help.

I think you'll find that many in the west question the privileged position of the church (generic, applying to any) with regard to certain matters, such as tax avoidance. However, the document you present seems to indicate those responsible twisted the idea of separation of church and state to achieve the exact opposite - for example, by suppressing the right of people to express dissent from the government.

To reiterate, separation of church and State is a two-edged sword. It means churches should keep their noses out of matters of state and the state should not impose restrictions on what people may believe (or, equally, not believe).

This is a matter of quite some interest in my country right at this very moment. Tomorrow, we will find out the result of a postal vote of the population on whether to allow same-sex marriage.

Those opposing legislation to permit it are largely led by the churches, who are effectively asserting their right to dictate to others who may marry whom - thereby sticking their noses fairly and squarely into a secular issue.

At the same time, realising that it is quite likely the majority of the population will support the necessary amendments, they are seeking to have "protection of religious freedom" bills introduced at the same time, to "protect" them from a nebulous threat nobody has demonstrated actually exists.

I support the right of any person to practice and promote their religion, providing doing so does not detract from the rights of others who are not of that religion to exercise their own freedom of choice.

I do not support the right of any religion to use state-run and state-funded institutions to promote their cause at the expense of other religions, or indeed those who are not of any religion. And when churches seek to do so, they are crossing a boundary that shouldn't be crossed. Just as the communists did. That was not an example of separation of church and state. It was a breakdown of that separation due to State intervention where it had no business going. To quote the US Constitution:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".




reconciled

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RE: A Place Called Heaven
Reply on November 12, 2017 06:33 PM
well you know CD the great thing about Christianity...and America, as well as all other "Christian founded and principled" Countries is We dont tax or kill your kafir can if you cant see the light. I for one would love for you take a camcorder and hop the next flight to Saudi Arabia and "show" us all a real discrimination free zone. the foundation of Christianity is free choice....weve chosen both...first under God...then your way in our schools...our Children...our future. and what is the fruit produced...?




CD Richards

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RE: A Place Called Heaven
Reply on November 12, 2017 06:43 PM << Modifed November 12 at 7:15PM >>
I don't follow you, Michael.

Which of the statements in either of my two preceding posts do you have a problem with? Please be specific as to the statement, and what the issue is - then I might be able to answer you.

I think it might be worthwhile pointing out that the "religious persecution" from which your puritans were fleeing was at the hands of the Christian church - in countries where separation did not exist.

My reading of the settling of British and European folk in the States is that their own recent experiences led them unequivocally to understand (whatever their own beliefs might be) that combining politics and religion would bite them on the ass - so with commendable foresight, they decided not to mix the two.

   
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