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Donya Quijote

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RE: Tear down those pyramids.
Reply on August 25, 2017 12:09 AM
Sarkems:

Remember immigration in America is a tricky subject. Not all "white" people have been welcomed with open arms, the Irish and the Italians certainly weren't initially, and neither were peoples from former Eastern Block Nations.

Removing the statues of Civil War generals won't solve the real problem. Most Americans are just plain ignorant when it comes to their history. The mayor of New York wants to remove Columbus' statue now. Once again removal of that statue will not erase the sins of the man nor the sins of this nation.




michaelcahill
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RE: Tear down those pyramids.
Reply on August 25, 2017 12:40 AM
The statues are a focal point and a rallying point for the KKK, neo Nazis and the White Supremacists. So, they are hardly artifacts of the past in the current landscape.

I'm for giving 100 percent deference to the side that takes offence to these symbols so revered by these racist hate organizations.

The Confederacy was an enemy of the United States. Since when does any nation allow the flag of the enemy to fly ANYWHERE on it's soil?

"The South shall rise again" is a call to war against the United States, is it not?




Sarkems
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RE: Tear down those pyramids.
Reply on August 25, 2017 01:39 AM
Yes, well, Donya, my own country is as bad, we've never exactly welcomed the Irish or the Eastern Europeans either. But, funny thing, I've been thinking about this sort of thing a bit lately, but my musings are better suited to the political forum.


djeckert
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RE: Tear down those pyramids.
Reply on August 25, 2017 03:40 PM

A great point that recon made about a very real, and usually ignored or forgotten aspect of the Civil war.

Cahill,you say:

The statues are a focal point and a rallying point for the KKK, neo Nazis and the White Supremacists. So, they are hardly artifacts of the past in the current landscape.

It's " good" to see you're up on understanding and perpetuating the mind control propoganda.



Sarkems
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RE: Tear down those pyramids.
Reply on August 25, 2017 04:12 PM
So, DJ, for what reason do you consider the statues should remain in their current positions? Please note, I am asking because I want to know from the perspective of someone who has only really heard the arguments made against keeping the statues, and who doesn't know all of the significance of the said statues.
What do they mean to you? What do they represent?

mrsmajor
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RE: Tear down those pyramids.
Reply on August 25, 2017 04:50 PM << Modifed August 25 at 5:01PM >>

There is no question that the Italians, and Irish, were not treated as welcoming as some others...but if I'm wrong please correct me...I don't think any of those people you mentioned were brought here in chains, for the sole purpose of being used as slaves.

If we really want to get down to it...there were thousands of Indians here when we first appeared on the shores of what we now know as the United States...that also seems to have been forgotten..

Just Some Thoughts!

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RE: Tear down those pyramids.
Reply on August 25, 2017 05:57 PM


"I think Americans are afraid of losing any more of themselves"...an interesting statement, and one that, to me, makes clear just what all of this opposition to the removing of the statues means to some people...

I'm sure blacks were not pleased to be taking away from "themselves" to be used for the benefit of others...but they were.

While Lee believed in the sovereignty of each state over federal authority...and the white slave holding south, he also said

"Slavery was a greater evil to the white man than to the black race in the United Sates, and that the "painful discipline they are undergoing is necessary for their instruction"

The question in my mind is do Americans of today still have that idea, that kind of thought...and I can answer myself, by simply saying...yes, some do.

Seems to me he wasn't speaking about human beings...and clearly the idea that slaves was a greater evil to the white man than to the black race still remains..I call that white supremacy and the idea is alive and well today...its interesting how some would rather not believe such a ideal exist...and offer all kinds of evidence to prove that it doesn't.

No attempt to excuse the treatment of slaves do I hear, and lee's idea that slaves were in need of taming, will not allow me to be in favor of such a statue remaining in the view of all people...as I have said, why not place them in a museum for all those that need to be reminded of their heritage can visit at their leisure.


Just Some Thoughts!




reconciled

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RE: Tear down those pyramids.
Reply on August 25, 2017 06:25 PM << Modifed August 25 at 6:26PM >>
well...I'm not sure.
I've just recently took interest in Lee. I would have to read what he said in its entirety to ascertain his meaning. If it fact, he meant what you suggest. that beating human beings into submission acceptable...then I'm appalled. Miss Magor...I or anyone I know have never enslaved a man to chains...at least in a physical sense. if you must insist myself and others racist for a self interest in preserving our history and commons, you will succeed only in your own minds reality.


Sarkems
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RE: Tear down those pyramids.
Reply on August 26, 2017 02:33 AM
Recon, fair enough, you've never enslaved anyone. But here's the thing. Most German citizens today didn't gas any Jews, but that country is still ashamed enough of that part of its history to not retain any statues of those who did. In Germany, displaying the swastika in public is prohibited, even. And I doubt very much whether that will change three or four generations down the line.

You might say I can't really compare the atrocities committed by Hitler's Germany, but it's a closer comparison than ancient Egypt, both in time and human suffering.

I've never kept a slave. Nobody in my family, past or present, did. But I never was a slave either, and nobody in my family history was. People, that is to say, human beings, with thoughts, feelings, families, all the things we all have today, were chained like animals. And Mrs Major, though she doesn't love me at the moment and may not be reading this post, is dead right when she says the Irish and Italians may not have been liked, but they weren't brought to your country in chains, branded, beaten because 'that's all they understand', and made to suffer the kind of cruel and unusual punishments like the boiling and skin raking I mentioned earlier.

And all that was perfectly legal. And we aren't talking about some ancient civilisation, here, we're talking about a Christian nation who prided itself on its notions of freedom.

Now, if I sat down with an Egyptian and asked them about the history of slavery in their country, they wouldn't be telling me about the stories their grandmother told that she'd heard from her grandmother. They'd be talking about what they'd read in some ancient text.

Aren't you embarrassed that this conversation we are having isn't about a third-world country that might at least have the excuse (well, you might see it as an excuse) of not having good, Christian morals?

The people bought as slaves were considered 'savages' at the time. Really? THEY were savages?

Well, I'm embarrassed by the part my own countrymen played in this. I'm embarrassed that it was so recent in our history that Mrs Major's grandmother heard about it from a family member with first-hand experience.

Are the people who thought this was acceptable, even necessary for the progression of your nation REALLY people you'd like to keep in places of honour? I don't say you should try to erase this history, but you put up statues to someone as a mark of respect.

Now, think about the statues in question, and ask yourself: Are they really worthy of that respect? Hand on heart? If you want statues marking the historic achievements of your nation, perhaps you could replace those statues with ones of the slaves, whose contribution to your nation's wealth and prosperity was massive.

The ancient pyramids are a testament, not to the Pharaos, but to the incredible skill and endeavour of the people who built them. When we look at those massive structures today, we don't think of men they were built for so much as those who built them, for they are the people who should be honoured.




reconciled

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RE: Tear down those pyramids.
Reply on August 26, 2017 09:50 AM
well Emma...too bad CNN aint got enough sense to interview you.
I'll be damned if I argue that...if I dont drown first...this must be what Noah seen. it was nice knowing you....remember Michael.

   
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