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michaelcahill
rumours and innuendos
rumours of innuendos

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RE: Eclipses
Reply on September 27, 2017 02:36 AM << Modifed September 27 at 3:04AM >>
I'm totally down for paying a single premium and we all get coverage. AND I am one who rarely uses insurance for anything. BUT I've seen soooooo many people suffer for lack of care and even die as a result. It's wrong.

Since I'm in the minority viewpoint wise, I'll try to give an answer as to the Bible's depiction of things. I started a discussion in another thread and I'll add to it if I can.

To me, the Bible is the complete history of the Christian faith, including its origins, folklore and history. Of course, the closer we get to the present the more accurate the history becomes. I'd say around the time of King David, the account is approaching events as they occurred. True, the recording of events didn't compare to our current methods, but I think it's a reliable source.

That leaves the book open to scrutiny ESPECIALLY the Old Testament.

I don't think God condones slaughter or dashing of babies heads against the rocks.

I think the early Old Testament is simply a recording of sorts of history as best as can be told. I don't see how exact or accurate it can be. So, I'm taking it as a general passed down through generations account. It was obviously primitive times with warring factions. War appeared to be a brutal and barbaric endeavor. Destroy your enemy in their entirety or they would somehow come back to haunt you.

So, yep, they wiped them out. Ugly and hideous. We did that to Hiroshima and Nagasaki. In fact, I've yet to study a war that wasn't replete with hideousness as a cornerstone.

I don't think God told Truman to drop the bomb. I don't think God told Manson to kill Sharon Tate. In fact I don't think God tells anyone to do anything.

We do it. We have the tools within us to do whatever we will. We can create the Sisten Chapel or we can blow it up.

The Old Testament and the slaughter of all the various "ites" isn't a reflection on God or a carrying our of his will. It's us being us.

Hopefully we're better now, but ...

Of course, this all took place BEFORE Jesus, and we are talking about Christianity, are we not?

Okay, that's my short input. LOL!!!


By the way, I find it hard to believe that the Westboro Babtist Chuch is not well known. They are the folks spouting our buddy Jones' theory that Sandy Hook was staged, showed up at FUNERALS for children disrupting them and carrying signs to that effect. Good old Christian Brother Jones and Infowars, the Holy bastion of truthers everywhere. I guess I'm not the Christian in good standing I should be. Then you have that great Christian leader Donald Trump calling the protesters "Sons of Bitches" ie their mothers are bitches. Well, that would make them available for some pussy grabbing at least. Anyway, just a couple thoughts to toss in. :))


djeckert
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RE: Eclipses
Reply on September 27, 2017 07:57 AM


Emma, you said,

 "The human mind is an incredible thing, and it processes images and information received in a million different ways. What you see isn't any more insane than what I see. Your explanation for what you see simply differs from mine. Your explanation makes sense to you, mine makes sense to me. Does it really have to make sense to anyone else? "

Emma, here is one of those strange "supernatural" experiences of mine that I spoke of ...Well kind of,. because it comes through my young daughter. I am curious what it is you would make of this, being neither of us can "make sense of it for her" as you would say. Lol. This was November 2001, at my Mother's wake. She had two days before died, totally unexpectedly. My wife and I and several others were standing in front of my mom's open casket. I held my two and a half year old daughter in my arms. As we stood there looking at my mother, my daughter, who was speech delayed ( and just entering into speech therapy for this) pointed at my Mother's body and then would move her pointing finger in a fluid motion to the plain, white wall that was directly over my mom's body ( probably six feet of totally empty wall up to the ceiling. )" Look" she said, (or she would say "yook") and then she said " up." Continually pointing from my mom's body to the empty wall above her. "Up", she would say "up! ", pointing back and forth from my mom, to the wall, each time more emphatically. She got so frustrated by us not seeing this, that she took my wife's face into her hands and tried to force her gaze to see whatever it was that she most definitely believed she was seeing. There was definitely no agenda on her part in this. I hear it said quite often that little children often see things that our adult brains are trained to not see anymore. This seemed like one of those instances. I could offer up what I think she saw, but I am curious as to what a more skeptical person would make of what she saw. What kind of incredible human mind thing DID she see?


djeckert
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RE: Eclipses
Reply on September 27, 2017 12:16 PM
Hey Craig, it's good to see that we got you back to doing some Bible study. Lol.
Here, is another intersting verse:

so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it. Isaiah 55:11

There is a lot here, that you site. So I'd be happy to go over the context of ONE , (of your choosing to start) if you would like.

The context on some of these, very well may seem, or even be as awful as you suggest CD. I honestly have not studied this part of the Bible all that much. But one context that I , and millions and millions of others have had comfort with, which YOU don't, is that the Creator, God of the Universe IS the Creator God of the universe, who CAN ( like we would have any choice) do what HE wills.

There are a number of things you can do with this Craig:

1) you can dismiss it all as just a crazy compilation of crazy things by crazy people who are a part of the world's problems ( But I would submit that the Biblical worldview actually brings, by far, the most sense to this crazy world, and the most REAL peace. )

2) you can reject it because the God it tells us about seems to be a tyrannical , capricious and vengeful, unloving God. (Or, god, you would say.) To this, I would say that you are merely illustrating your sinful nature ( Reaping the eating of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil) which you,like us all, have inherited, and again , you are merely and gloriously illustrating it by telling God that you are morally superior to HIM.

3) you could say, "God, I don't understand or even agree with YOUR WAYS, please show Yourself to me in a way that even I can't ( to my honest,and sincere ,humble heart) ignore. I know this may take longer than I wish, and may come in ways I could never predict, fathom or even understand... .But my heart is open to YOU. " Maybe even, with this go and visit a Holy Spirit filled church , filled with God's loving ( yet imperfect and sinning people) , and see where THAT might lead you.

4) or, I suppose you could look elsewhere. Whatever that might mean.

I am assuming that one or more of these options are still uncomfortable to you, and that is why you still care about figuring something out on this. ( My take anyways). My prayers and best wishes are with you on this Craig.
Bless you!!


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RE: Eclipses
Reply on September 27, 2017 01:25 PM << Modifed September 27 at 1:34PM >>
Could've been anything, Doug. I once saw (and I remember it clearly) people in animal skins chasing each other across a cupboard door. I could only have been about four. I wondered later if it was some sort of collective memory, but it was more likely to have been a vivid replay of some TV show I had caught.

I'm familiar with the idea that children 'see' things adults do not. The way our brains process things is a much more intense process. We are absorbing a lot of new information, every single day. We are also far, far more guided by imaginative process at that age. All our senses are heightened by the newness of every experience. Do you remember how 'real' games of 'let's pretend' were? I remember getting so involved in games in solitary play, I could see schoolrooms full of people.

Your daughter was having a new, and intense experience. She would have been, as many children are, incredibly sensitive to the emotion around her. Such emotions release all sorts of chemicals into the brain. As adults, we can filter this, control it, direct it, mostly. But there are times when people under intense emotional strain have reported similar visual disturbances. Not just people with psychiatric disorders, but people who are over-stressed.

Ever day-dreamed? Kids do that a lot, but it's far more intense for them. Couple that with a bewildering day, when everyone around her is behaving differently than they usually do, and what have you got? Maybe the play of light made a pretty bird for her, who knows, but I hope it was something lovely.

Our brains are incredibly complex. I've played with drugs in my time, but I've never found anything that re-creates the incredible emotional and creative intensity of my brain in childhood.

Congratulations. Your daughter has a wonderful, creative brain. I read somewhere once that children who have imaginary friends, for example, who are very real to them, and who create their own worlds are exceptionally bright.





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RE: Eclipses
Reply on September 27, 2017 02:36 PM
Hey Emma, thanks for your response. It is what I would have expected from a skeptical person.
What you say may very well be true, OR as you say here:

". As adults, we can filter this, control it, direct it, mostly. But there are times when people under intense emotional strain have reported similar visual disturbances. Not just people with psychiatric disorders, but people who are over-stressed"

There could be something , not necessarily psychiatric, but spiritual....Or at least above, or besides human perception going on in all of this. And I would dare to say that an emotional realm and a spiritual realm seem like they could be related, or reliant on each other. THAT , very well could be a lot of what we, scientifically minded humans label merely as "psychiatric" , especially under a presupposition that there is no such thing as spiritual or even paranormal phenomenon. Just my thoughts on this. Blessings.

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RE: Eclipses
Reply on September 27, 2017 06:38 PM << Modifed September 27 at 6:40PM >>
Now come on, Doug - I invested minutes of my time in digging out those gems. I shouldn't have to pick one to debate too. Since it is you who will be defending the indefensible, I think it only fair you should get to pick one of your choosing from all those on offer.

To answer the collection of choices you gave me in your post...

1) you can dismiss it all as just a crazy compilation of crazy things by crazy people who are a part of the world's problems Yep.

2) you can reject it because the God it tells us about seems to be a tyrannical , capricious and vengeful, unloving God. Spot on.

3) you could say, "God, I don't understand or even agree with YOUR WAYS, please show Yourself to me in a way that even I can't ( to my honest,and sincere ,humble heart) ignore. There may be a place for self-hypnosis in the world, but I don't think it should extend to matters of belief.

4) or, I suppose you could look elsewhere. Whatever that might mean. I suppose it means into one of the thousands of other gods history and the imaginations of men have served up to us. No thanks.

You're quite wrong, DJ, in assuming that I'm in the process of "figuring out" something. I think it should be obvious my "figuring out" was done long ago. I'm simply doing the same as you, Recon, Mikey, and Emma, and everyone else who posts here is doing - expressing an opinion.

As to your point that your God is so great and mighty that he can do anything he damn well pleases and it must be good... what if I was to tell you that I actually have found an even bigger and more mighty god (named Kevin). He not only demands babies be smashed to death, but that we drink their blood afterwards. And not only should women be forced to marry their rapists, but if they have a child as a result of said union, they are to cook it, and serve it up to their newly acquired husband for dinner. Ridiculous? Kevin is uber-almighty (he eats Yahwehs for breakfast), so who are you to argue with him?

Looking forward to seeing your first choice :)


michaelcahill
rumours and innuendos
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RE: Eclipses
Reply on September 27, 2017 06:54 PM << Modifed September 27 at 7:37PM >>
"he eats Yahwehs for breakfast"

I'm having a very difficult time explaining to my lovely Christian household WHY that has me howling with laughter.....

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RE: Eclipses
Reply on September 27, 2017 07:03 PM << Modifed September 27 at 7:39PM >>
Hehe... I got Mikey in trouble with his folks. Sorry Mikey :(

If ever you and your clan are in this neck of the woods, be sure to drop in and break bread. I imagine it could be fun.


michaelcahill
rumours and innuendos
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RE: Eclipses
Reply on September 27, 2017 07:43 PM
As long as Yahweh isn't on the menu. LOL!!!!

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RE: Eclipses
Reply on September 27, 2017 07:58 PM << Modifed September 27 at 8:01PM >>
You know he'll always get a good roasting here.

Nah, relax - we're vegetarians, not Catholics LOL

(too obscure?)

   
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