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djeckert
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Tear down those pyramids.

   Thread Started August 24 at 12:09PM

Tear down those pyramids.

I know that the origin and presence of the Egyptian pyramids is MUCH more insidious than the mainstream belief perpetrated upon us. But to engage the duped in their own foolish game:


Not only were these great monuments built for slave owners , but they were actually built BY slaves.!!! SLAVES!!!, of ALL colors, I would be willing to bet.

Why don't we ALL band together for humanity and insist that these great monuments to slavery be torn down?

Any thoughts on this most cut and dry matter? ( Aside from the size of the demolition task)

Let the cricket chirping begin. Lol.



Sarkems
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RE: Tear down those pyramids.

Reply on August 24, 2017 01:06 PM << Modifed August 24 at 2:09PM >>

Well. 1) They are an incredible feat of human enterprise before mechanisation. People are still trying to figure out exactly how they were built. Statues don't really compare. besides, I'd like to see anyone knock one down, it'd take a bit more than a JCB

2) We'll need to sort out a bit of a definition of 'slavery', here. Egyptian slavery was simply an early version of employing the lower classes to do all the dirty work, which was not unlike later monarchist class systems like the one in the country I come from, and not all that dissimilar to the 'blue collar' class in your own, Treating your slave well, in Egyptian times was considered a moral duty.
Of course, there were those owned by royalty who were expected to die with their owners, but since they believed they were going to some sort of a paradise, it's debatable what the slaves actually thought of that. Contrast that with what was offered to the slaves in America, who were told there was no place at all in their white, slave-owner's heaven, well ... you know.

3) The kind of slavery practised in ancient Egypt took place thousands of years ago. Not a couple of hundred. Kind of embarrassing to think that they didn't even treat their slaves quite as badly as many African slaves were treated in America only a mere few hundred years ago. People were dunked in boiling water and had their burnt skin raked afterwards for daring to rest a few moments. I wish I was talking about ancient Egyptian's treatment of slaves, there. Terrible to think I'm actually talking about an enlightened, Christian society.

4) The Gods that ruled ancient Egypt aren't worshipped any more. There are no surviving Egyptians who can claim their family got their riches from the use of slave labourers. Can the same be said of the descendants of British and American slave-owners?

4) One of the things that irritated me about abolition from a British point of view was that whilst the slave trade was viewed with disgust and horror
(rightly) by some members of the higher classes in British society, slavery at home remained acceptable. You could still shove a young boy up a chimney. We could, of course, knock down all the chimneys. Let's face it, if we were going to knock down every monumental building erected by people with about the same sort of rights and treatment as that received by many of the poor folk of ancient Egypt, you'd be losing St Paul's cathedral over here, and the Hoover Dam at your end, to name but two.

5) Mrs Major said it on another thread, and I think it is true to say that the treatment of the African slaves, who were regarded in a certain way not merely because of their social status but because of their colour, has directly affected perceptions of their descendants. We aren't talking about a long-forgotten culture, here, we are talking about one that still existed in some places, despite abolition, into the early 20th century. We're talking about great-grandparents, possibly, of people still alive today. That's like wondering why the Germans didn't leave statues up of Hitler when there's still ruins of a culture which died 5,000 years ago left standing. Don't you think that might be a slap in the face to the Jews?

My point is that not enough time has passed to eradicate the culture and mentality which permitted such a trade to exist in the West. You can't compare it to an ancient civilisation, any more than you can compare buildings erected by those subjected to slavery with statues of the people who supported that slavery.

That said, I'm not pro removing the statues, necessarily. It won't erase what happened. But I wonder why such statues are so necessary to keep, when the monuments to slavery exist in so many facets of your country, and mine.

By keeping the buildings created by slaves, you preserve at least, their work. A statue of a slave owner does not honour the slaves who helped him build his empire. The empire that the slaves built, at least, stands as a testament to their labour.




Sarkems
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RE: Tear down those pyramids.
Reply on August 24, 2017 02:25 PM
I'd also question why you chose the monuments of ancient Egypt in particular to condemn. The ancient Roman and Greek civilisations, whose slaves were widely regarded as having been subjected to more brutal treatment, built, I am sure, the coliseum, the acropolis, and many more ancient monuments in those countries.

I'm left wondering exactly what point you are trying to make, here.


michaelcahill
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RE: Tear down those pyramids.
Reply on August 24, 2017 02:31 PM
He's trying to say that taking down monuments to the Confederacy is just as silly as taking down the pyramids that they are the same situation.


Sarkems
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RE: Tear down those pyramids.
Reply on August 24, 2017 02:44 PM
Yes, I sort of got that bit, hence my mentioning the statues. It just seems like a rather daft comparison for a clever man to make. Like I say, not wholly with the destruction of the statues, but ...


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RE: Tear down those pyramids.
Reply on August 24, 2017 03:33 PM
I think we need to move on to the Statue of Liberty, that symbol of unfettered mass immigration. Whose bright idea was that?

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RE: Tear down those pyramids.
Reply on August 24, 2017 04:59 PM


It isn't expected that white people would understand what statues like Robert E Lee stands for to people like myself...at my age, I can still recall the stories my grandmother told us, as kids, about what her grandmother told her when she was just a child...slavery was not just a thought to me, it was a reality as told by my grandmother.

The Pyramids have always been examined with a sense of wonder...simply because those of our day realized the wonder of the process that created them...also those Pyramids were erected thousands of years ago...the statues in question here, in the United States, were erected in recent times the R.E.L was was erected in 1924...long after the end of the civil war...

While I can understand they mean a lot to some people...that's clear, and yes there are those that still agree with the premise of slavery, it does refer us to a time difficult to forget for some of us, and no one has the right to simply say forget it.

Since we are a mixed society, I believe those that consider these kinds of statues, part of our heritage...that they should be put into museums.

The Pyramids are a wonderful example of the ability of those so long before our time to build, such fantastic artwork, (that's what I choose to call them) I see no reason why they should be dismantled...or moved after these thousands of years.

To try and compare the two just doesn't make sense to me...these are about different times, and different situations...but each can easily warrant a separation discussion.

Personally I respect the builders of the Pyramids and only wish, in my young years, I could have seen some close up.

Yet I do agree that slavery in any form is certainly not acceptable...and never was no matter where and who the slaves were...

Just Some Thoughts!




djeckert
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RE: Tear down those pyramids.
Reply on August 24, 2017 05:14 PM
No , Cahill they don't need to rip down the statue of liberty... they should just put a pirate's patch on the old BOY and put up a new sign on it that says
"Come aboard mates! Jump on into the ole wagon!
here' s yer whip... I mean your illegal vote.... to whip those scallywags pullin' the ole wagon into proper shape.! ....Or off with yer head! Aaaarghhh! ".

Sorry, sometimes a guys just gotta vent. Thanks Sarkem. for your thoughtful ideas, I hope to respond more thoughtfully in kind later.


michaelcahill
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RE: Tear down those pyramids.
Reply on August 24, 2017 05:28 PM
I believe that MOST white people, and people of all colours, DO understand what those statues represent to black folk IF they are thinking people. No, they could never share completely the feelings involved, but all of us can certainly validate and understand them. That is why you'll find, I believe, the vast majority of people in favour of their removal to museums or other appropriate venues.

So, Deck, you think Lady Liberty to be transgender, eh? Interesting. Is she the one who let all those millions of illegal aliens in to vote for Hilary? Tsk, tsk ... naughty girl.


Sarkems
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RE: Tear down those pyramids.
Reply on August 24, 2017 05:37 PM
I suspect, Michael, that the 'symbol of mass immigration' was only ever really supposed to apply to the mass immigration of the early white settlers, but unfortunately, nobody thought to put that codicil on the inscription. Likewise, they thought 'liberty' was a better name than 'liberty for the white settlers, imprisonment, murder and brutality for the indigenous population whose language and customs we won't be assimilating, however, later on, we will expect all applicants for succour on this land to dance to our tune. Oh, and slavery is a great way to drive home the message of liberty and freedom'.

But that's an awful long name for a statue ...

And yes, Mrs Major, I can only imagine what it must be like to have heard from your own family about what life is like as a slave, and to see those who endorsed this immortalised as statues. I would say your museum idea is a fair compromise.


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RE: Tear down those pyramids.
Reply on August 24, 2017 09:24 PM
he didnt endorse it...from what Ive read, he knew slavery of men was wrong. said so in writing. It was...back then, since he was a boy ah...hard as that is to imagine in feel me reality. Apparently it was way of life once upon a time...just beginning to be openly recognized unjust...evil. Hi Emma...-smile-
please remember that the American civil war was not "only" about slavery...but also the sovereignty of each State over "federal authority". this is what prompted Lee to side with the confederacy...his loyalty to Virginia.
He was offered and would have been a General for the Union had it been any other war. please try to bare in mind the times...hard as that is for us, here and now. I think Americans are afraid of losing anymore of themselves. and this the real motivating factor to the opposition of the removal of the statues.
anyway....its all surreal to me really. I cant really comprehend it...touch it. and maybe thats a good thing.


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